HP as Morality Play (was Re: Harry learning from Snape )

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 114794


Dzeytoun:
> > > I sense that you see in this (and I may be wrong) a kind of 
> > > Christian parable with Harry being a sort of martyr/Christ 
> > > figure.  Certainly that is one way to interpret things.  
 
SSSusan:
> > Well, yes & no.  I happen to find many Christian themes & images 
> > within the books, yes, and they please me.  But one of the 
> > things that I find cool about JKR is that she's written these 
> > books in such a way that they're NOT screaming "Christian 
> > books!" at people, making them feel that if they're not 
> > interested in such things, there's nothing within for them.  
> > 
> > Besides, even if I happen to find things that seem "Christian" 
> > to me, those things *aren't* exclusively "Christian."  I mean, 
> > what I've been arguing is that I believe Harry will likely find 
> > a means of setting aside his dislike, anger, hatred, disrespect 
> > [choose your term of preference] for/towards Snape in order to 
> > focus on what "matters more" to him:  working for the Order, 
> > learning all he can to prepare himself to face down Voldemort, 
> > working for the side of Good [or for the greater good, if that 
> > term appeals more].  I believe he will do this, rather than 
> > focus on what might seem more "just," personally, which would be 
> > to continue to be hateful and angry towards Snape, to continue 
> > to defy him, to not try very hard in his classes in order to 
> > somehow show Snape that he's not going to take his "abuse."  
> > 
> > This type of decision, to put one's own self lower on the 
> > priority scale than the greater good is *NOT* a Christian-only 
> > tenet.  In fact, I'm thinking it's a pretty widespread way of 
> > seeing things, a very common part of many people's value 
> > systems.  I would say that taking the more "selfish" route of 
> > demanding to be treated in X kind of way, with that being more 
> > important than ANYTHING else [as you've said], is a much more 
> > *uncommon* view.
> > 
> > By the way, I do want to mention that nowhere have I argued that 
> > if Harry manages to set aside his hatred and "I'm not going to 
> > do what HE says" attitude regarding Snape, because he's made a 
> > conscious decision that the Order and the defeat of Voldy are 
> > more important, that that means he suddenly respects Snape.  I 
> > *hope* for a grudging respect eventually, for the things Snape 
> > has risked & the things he has done on Harry's behalf, but he 
> > HAS been a jackass to Harry & Neville in class, and I don't 
> > expect Harry to instantly develop respect for the kinds of 
> > tactics he has used.  I merely ["merely," as if it'll be easy! :-
> > )] want Harry to CHOOSE to become mature and outward-focused, to 
> > CHOOSE to be above snarkiness, pettiness and personal 
> > vendettas.  Yes, doing so would be a "Christian" move in 
> > one world, but it would also be considered "right" in many, many 
> > other moral belief systems.

Dzeytoun:
> Yeah, I guess that's true.  A lot of it, I suppose, comes down to 
> basic differences of personality and experience.  The very idea of 
> doing what you propose has always struck me as so totally 
> ludicrous that it isn't even worthy of consideration.  And my 
> experience has universally been that to act in the way you propose 
> (and I've seen it tried, many times) only creates worse situations 
> that are much harder to deal with.  Therefore I have never seen 
> that behavior as mature, only foolish, unworkable in the longer 
> run, and in a way selfish, as it amounts to avoiding the situation 
> and leaving an enormous mess for somebody else to clean up later.


SSSusan:
Do you realize how very INSULTING your comments appear, Dzeytoun?  
Why can you not just disagree with someone without inserting words 
such as "reprehensible," "ludicrous," "foolish," and not "worthy of 
consideration"?  You're not the only one to have experienced life, 
to have been a teacher, to have worked with youth.  I really wish 
you would find a more courteous way of disagreeing.


Dzeytoun:
> Or, to put it another way, I strongly suspect the 
> only "resolution" will come after the death of one or the other.  
> Anything else just wouldn't be very true to the characters.


SSSusan:
Again, why is it that YOUR view is the one which is "true" to the 
characters and other people, who have disagreed with you, have views 
which aren't "true"?  It's just wrong to say that, because we're 
talking about people's *opinions* about what is true to a character.

Siriusly Snapey Susan