JKR characterizations--oversimplification?

[onnanokata]

No: HPFGUIDX 115017


Lisa wrote:
 
A not too long reply, starting with a qualification about an 
assumption made about my post (in regard to JKRs comments about 
Sirius on her website):
 
Whether or not I am a "Sirius fan" seems irrelevant here, and 
neither did I actually indicate that I was.  My point was that I 
found JKR's assessment of his character, as put forth on her 
website, both an oversimplification and also inconsistant with 
things she actually wrote in the books.  My like or dislike of (or 
indifference toward) Sirius is not the point.  I in fact agree with 
much of what you've said in terms of why Sirius' life circumstances 
might have made him less able to deal with various events, 
particularly in OotP.  I think you've articulated some of these 
ideas well, and in ways that make sense, but it seems overly 
generous to ascribe your interpretations to JKR when what she said 
is not really the same as (nor does it really imply, I don't think) 
what *you* are saying. 
 
For example, you say regarding Kreacher:
"Sirius might have been better able to cope with the responsibility 
of dealing with Kreacher, and everything the House Elf represented, 
if he would have had time to mature."
 
Lisa:
Or if he hadn't been forced by circumstances to live in conditions 
that constantly reminded him of a past he thought he'd left behind 
at 16, or if he'd had more time to 'recover' from Azkaban before 
being put in that position, or....  I agree that Sirius was perhaps 
not in a mental state and/or at a point in his life conducive to  
being able to take Kreacher's antics more "in stride."
 
However, saying that "the circumstances of Sirius' life and his 
maturity (or lack thereof) made it more difficult for him to deal 
with Kreacher and everything he represented" is NOT the same as 
saying "Sirius loathed Kreacher, which just goes to show that he is 
good at spouting philosophy but can't live up to it."  I honestly 
still fail to see how this was about an inability to specifically 
treat an 'inferior' decently.  As Jen says, "I completely believed,
because of the way JKR wrote the story, that we were intended to see
Sirius' hatred of Kreacher as a very personal hatred stemming from
his bizarre family, their love of the Dark Arts and even Grimmauld
Place. It never occured to me in reading OOTP that Sirius was
treating Kreacher the way he did *because* he was a House Elf and
Sirius looked down on him for it."
 
What you're saying and what JKR's words say are two very different 
things, I think.
 
Then later in your post, you say,
"To me, she is implying that Sirius was unable to let go of his past 
experiences with Snape."
 
and
 
"Implying that he did not deal with Snape effectively in the context 
of the OotP really seems fair to me."
 
Lisa:
Again, I agree with you (although also, again, I'd say that this 
inability was pretty much mutual, but that's another discussion).  
think both of these things are true, and if JKR had said them, I 
would have no issue with her.  Sirius does have difficultly letting 
go of his past with Snape, and he doesn't deal well with him in 
OotP. 
 
However, as with the previous example, there is a difference between 
what you've just said and what JKR herself said.  First of all she 
tells us that Sirius has put forth the philosophy that no one is 
wholly good or wholly evil, when that is not, in fact, what he said 
at all.  Then she uses his "issues" with Snape to show that he is 
inconsistent.  But if you compare what Sirius *actually* said ("The 
world isn't divided into good people and Death Eaters") to his 
opinion of Snape (as set forth pretty clearly in GoF), the two seem 
pretty consistent, I think.  He doesn't like Snape, doesn't 
necessarily trust him, but allows that he could be a nasty git and 
still not be a Death Eater (it turns out he was wrong, and Snape 
*was* a Death Eater, but that's neither here nor there at the 
moment).  So, just as Sirius says, the world isn't divided 
into "good" people and Death Eaters.  I'm still waiting for someone 
to explain how these two things (Sirius' *actual* words and his 
opinion of Snape) don't track with one another.
 
Such oversimplification and misstating of the facts is frustrating 
to me regardless of what character we're talking about and whether I 
like them or not.  As I said in my original post, I'm sure I'm not 
meant to look this closely at comments made about a secondary 
character, but I have to wonder, as Jen did in her post, whether 
there is/was a consistent vision behind all of this.  And it's 
disappointing to read an author's statements when they seem (to me 
at least) to speak of sloppy characterization.
 
Like I said, I don't disagree with many of your points.  I just 
don't see that they really follow from JKRs actual words.
 
Lisa

Dharma replies:

JKR still has two books to publish, and to the best of my 
understanding, really tries hard not to give away information that 
might be relevant to up coming events.  Given those things, I offered 
a different interpretation of the information she gave us on her site 
in the context of the books that have already been published.  I 
stated that my interpretation was based on the information on her 
site and on her books.  I never claimed that it had to be true, only 
that her response where fair and reasonable in the context of her 
work from my perspective.  It seems reasonable to reference the work 
in which the character is featured. If the source of information 
being used is JRK's site, her books or both, it is subject to the 
interpretation of the reader.

I offer up as an example this statement:

Lisa wrote:
>I find her reduction of Sirius' good points/virtue to
>his loyalty and affection for James frustratingly simplistic as
>well. 

JKR said:

Sirius is brave, loyal, reckless, and embittered and slightly 
unbalanced by his long stay in Azkaban.  He never really had a chance 
to grow up
and has had very little normal adult life.  Sirus's great 
redeeming quality is how much affection he is capable of feeling.  He 
loved James like a brother and went on to transfer that attachment to 
Harry.

Dharma replies:
 
I don't agree that JKR's statements are reductionist when looked at 
in the context of her work.  Sirius embraces Remus like a brother in 
PoA, after admitting he thought Remus was the spy.  Sirius shows 
concern for Ron's health after breaking his leg dragging him into the 
Whomping Willow.  Sirius faults himself for Ron no longer having a 
pet, and offers him Pigwigeon.  He invites the Weasleys to stay at 
number 12 over Christmas to be close to Arthur while he is in the 
hospital, after having conflict with Molly and the twins. These 
examples are consistent with Sirius being able to feel great 
affection for others, not just James.  Therefore, her statement is 
consistent with her work.  She mentions the relationship with James 
and subsequently Harry, but her statement about redemption is native 
to Sirius as a character. His capacity to feel is evident in the 
character's statements and actions.    

As to whether you are a Sirius fan or not...I can't say, nor does it 
have any particular influence on my opinions.  I like Sirius, and can 
speak from that perspective.  The information on the site is not 
exhaustive, and I (a Sirius fan) would have been interested to hear 
more.  But for the reasons stated in my last post on this topic, it 
is perfectly understandable to me why she might not give us too much 
detail.  

On issues like wholly good and wholly evil, I'm personally willing to 
accept that both Sirius' words in canon, and the words used by the 
author, who created the character, can be interpreted to mean- 
fundamentally good people and fundamentally bad people are capable of 
a range of behaviors.  As many people have pointed out in the past on 
this list, JKR is writing for a general audience, not necessarily 
people who are sticklers fine details.  If she chooses to give us 
information about canon without quoting from the books, it makes 
sense to me think about both sources.   JKR's words about her work do 
not exist in a vacuum separate from the work.  She is the source of 
both.  So I'd like to agree to agree on most points.

On the issue of characterization
if Sirius has not been developed as 
a character, and there is a problem with the cohesion of the story, 
would JKR's statements about any character really correct those 
issues?  That sounds to me more like a critique of the writing style, 
rather than a discussion of how she views the character.