JKR characterizations--oversimplification?

[hickengruendler]

No: HPFGUIDX 115103


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "doctor_fangeek" 
<doctor_fangeek at y...> wrote:
 
<Hickengruendler, snipping JKR's statement about Sirius>  
 
Lisa wrote:

> I know I'm not the only one who was disappointed by this (hi, 
> Jen!).  But I find myself unable to *not* comment on why.  I *know* 
> Sirius is flawed.  I accept that.  I think most/all of the 
> characters in these books are flawed, and that is a good thing.  I 
> accept that JKR thinks he's flawed as well. But several of her 
> comments really bugged me, in that she actually puts forth 
> interpretations that I found frustratingly simplistic when I saw 
> *readers* spouting them. In one case, she also really misrepresents 
> what she actually wrote in forming this interpretation.

Hickengruendler:

Well, I must admit that for the most part I agree with JKR's 
statement. I agree with you that she oversimplifies him a bit, but 
the question was not to give a detailed and deep analysis of Sirius, 
but simply if she liked him or not. And therefore she simply 
mentioned a few of his character traits she likes and a few she 
dislikes.

Lisa: 
> For example, the whole thing about how one treats one's inferiors 
as 
> it relates to Sirius' attitude toward Kreacher.  Frankly, I just 
> don't see it.  Yes, Sirius loathes Kreacher (as JKR confirms, if it 
> wasn't already obvious).  But JKR's own depiction of Kreacher as a 
> character (who is horrid, btw, even to the one person who is kind 
to 
> him) and her description of Sirius' background (and Kreacher's 
place 
> in it) suggests that Sirius loathes Kreacher for who he is and what 
> he represents of Sirius' past, not because he is an "inferior."  
> Dumbledore even points out that Sirius didn't have this attitude 
> toward house elves in general. Yet JKR then goes on to use "Sirius 
> loathes Kreacher" as evidence that he doesn't live up to his own 
> pronouncement. Right.

Hickengruendler:

While I agree with you that Sirius' has personal reasons to treat 
Kreacher that badly, I don't think it really makes a difference. 
After all, Barty Crouch senior also had very personal reasons to 
dismiss Winky, she was guilty of letting his son conjure the Dark 
Mark, because she wasn't able to stop him. Because of Winky Crouch 
seniors darkest secret was nearly discovered, and therefore the 
sacking of Winky was completely for personal reasons and not because 
he dislikes house-elves. Yes, Winky (although highly annoying, IMO) 
is a pitiable creature, while Kreacher is simply horrid. But Kreacher 
also was in an awful situation, being a slave to someone he despises. 
And Sirius never had a friendly word for him. Well, I don't think 
Sirius being friendly to Kreacher would have changed anything, he 
still would have betrayed him sooner or later. I'm also sure Sirius 
treated Kreacher that badly because of what Kreacher represents, 
Sirius awful childhood, and not because Kreacher is a house-elf or 
because Sirius has the power to treat Kreacher that way. (And 
obviously JKR agrees with us, since that's what she wrote in the 
books, and at no point does she state on the website that Sirius 
hated Kreacher because Kreacher's a house-elf). But personal motives 
and Kreacher's nastiness aside, Kreacher still was inferior to Sirius 
and Sirius still could have treated him a lot better, just because I 
can understand someone's motives doesn't mean I have to like or even 
accept their actions.

Lisa: 
> Then there's the whole "no one is wholly good or evil."  Well, to 
> start off with that's *not even what Sirius says in the book.*  He 
> says that the world is not divided into "good people and Death 
> Eaters."  And how is that inconsistent with almost all of what we 
> see/hear about his view of Snape??? In GoF he points out that he 
> can't imagine Dumbledore letting Snape teach if he'd been with 
> Voldemort, while at the same time making it clear that he doesn't 
> like Snape at all. Hmm. So Snape is not "good" but also not a 
> Death Eater?  And the inconsistency is where?  Color me confused. 

Hickengruendler:

While that's true, Sirius also didn't seem to accept the possibility, 
that Snape has changed. He said it in Snape's face in the 
chapter "Occlumency", that he knew exactly that Snape never had 
reformed. And about the statement in GoF, hmm, some people think that 
Sirius' behaviour in OotP was out of character and that he was 
inconsistently written. I disagree. I think the only scene in which 
the writing of his character is somewhat inconsistent is the scene 
with him in GoF in the chapter "Padfoot returns". Even in the 
Shrieking Shrack after Harry learned the truth, all of Sirius' 
shortcomings (and strengths, of course) are still very obvious, if we 
look behind Harry's rose-glassed point of view (for example when he 
learns about the werewolf-prank). It was this chapter in GoF, and 
only this chapter, where he seems to good to be true. Even here I'm 
willing to give JK Rowling the doubt, that it was because Sirius was 
relatively happy in this chapter, with him being free and Harry 
knowing his innocence, and that therefore he was able to show his 
very best side. But if something was off in Sirius' writing, I would 
say it was this scene, or at least some parts of it, like Sirius 
rather thoughtful opinion about Snape teaching at Hogwarts. This is 
the only time in the books where he doesn't react as if Snape is the 
devil in person.
 
Lisa:
> Then again, I find her reduction of Sirius' good points/virtue to 
> his loyalty and affection for James frustratingly simplistic as 
> well.  Why bother to tell us so much about his family and 
childhood, 
> about how he left home because of his beliefs and his opinion of 
his 
> family's beliefs, if none of that means anything with regard to 
> Sirius' character????

Hickengruendler:

Of course it means a lot for Sirius' character, otherwise she 
wouldn't have spent all those pages in OotP to tell us about his past 
and motivations. I'm sure if you would have asked her that question 
directly, she would have answered: "But of course that shows that he 
has his own opinion and is able to overcome family prejudices and 
that he doesn't condemn people because they are muggle-born. Isn't 
that obvious?". I'm really sure it was that obvious for her that she 
didn't even put it on the website. I don't think anyone (not even the 
biggest Sirius' hater) would be able to ignore this positive 
character trait of him. On the other hand, I do think that because 
the story is told from Harry's point of view, Sirius' comes off as 
better than if it were told from a neutral point of view, because of 
Sirius' love for him and James.