Harry & Seamus.

[finwitch]

No: HPFGUIDX 115472



> 
> Del replies :
> And how does Harry react when anyone insults his *parents* ? He's NOT
> happy...

Harry's Mom never prevented Harry from coming to Hogwarts, never
believed any nasty rumours... and they're DEAD. Harry's emotional
response to Mom&Dad is *very* different than response to those who
raised him.. At this situation, Seamus mother comes out like a Dursley.

> Finwitch wrote :
> " So in effect, Harry - by insulting Seamus' mother IS answering the
> question: His anger over such belief should tell it's not true. It's
> also anger for her to treat Seamus so - (attempting to prevent his
> coming to Hogwarts)."
> 
> Del replies :
> You might be right about Harry thinking that anger is a proof of
> innocence. I remember being a teenager and thinking the same as far as
> *I* was concerned. In other words, I expected people to realise that I
> got angry because I was right. *However*, and that's where it gets
> interesting, I usually reacted in the complete opposite way where
> other people were concerned : if they got angry, it was because I had
> hit a sore spot, because I had caught them in their lies, because they
> felt *guilty*. The more they got angry, the more I would deny their
> point of view. I'm afraid that might have happened with Harry too : we
> have no proof that Seamus shared his mother's opinion before Harry got
> mad, but we do know that he refuses the truth right after Harry's
> outburst. In Seamus's mind, it could very well be that he was ready to
> believe Harry, but that Harry's anger proved that he had something to
> hide.

Finwitch:

Misunderstandigs. They both assume too much, and misunderstand each other.
 
> As for Harry being angry at Seamus's mom for the way she treated her
> son, I don't think it fits with the way he talks about her. He calls
> her a liar, and he suggests that Seamus change dormitory, to "stop his
> mommy from worrying".

Finwitch:
Teenager challenge: If you're such a big Mommy's boy, go ahead, or
stay if you have a mind of your own. In effect, Seamus *has* to stay
in order to keep his face with his peers.
 
> Finwitch wrote :
> " Now let's get back to the Question Seamus asks Harry:
> He, as *everyone* in Hogwarts (except for the first years) know that
> Cedric Diggory died during the third task.
> Dumbledore told them of the matter: 
> a) Voldemort murdered Cedric.
> b) Harry brought Cedric's body back to Diggorys at the risk of his life.
> The question is: 
> Do you believe Dumbledore or not? If you do, you need not ask about
> Voldemort's return."
> 
> Del replies :
> That's a dangerous path to tread, *blind* acceptance and obedience.
> That's *Percy's path* ! Percy blindly obeys authority figures, without
> trying to figure things out for himself. So I think it's not something
> we should expect the other kids to do, to just accept DD's second-hand
> testimony without any proof or explanation.
 If it were me, I don't
> think I would believe in something of that magnitude and gravity just
> because the Headmaster says that a kid says he's seen those things
> happen and we should all believe him. And I don't think I would want
> my kid to believe it blindly either.

Oh well. Kid's dead. Dumbledore tells briely what happened (so far as
he knows). Voldemort mudered Cedric. Harry brought his body back.
Dumbledore believes Harry and that Ministry wants to lull everyone not
to believe him.

The kids know at least that Cedric Diggory died. This is also what
Dumbledore emphasized. Remember Cedric Diggory.
 
I'm not after blindly following authorities, but...

Cedric is dead.

*How* did he die? Albus Dumbledore says that Voldemort killed him, and
that Harry Potter was there and brought his body back, and told the
story to Albus Dumbledore. He also mentions that ministry doesn't like
him telling them that - but he does, because it's the truth.

So far so good. You can't expect full details in a funeral speech. I
for one wouldn't WANT them in that context.

Follows a series of articles and what not discrediting Harry Potter
about it. This adds evidence to Dumbledore, that Harry DID tell him
all that, regardless of whether you believe the article or not.
(Otherwise, why discredit HARRY?) And it wouldn't be just to doubt
Dumbledore of lying about a thing like this, either. He may be in
error, of course, but oh well...

The question is back on whether you believe Harry, who has already
*said* that Voldemort is back.

 
> Del replies :
--
> However, when Harry stopped trying to keep everything for himself and
> decided to *testify*, he actually managed to convince some people. And
> testify is exactly what Seamus was asking of him. I'm pretty sure that
> if Harry had done just that, Seamus would have supported him
> completely right from the beginning.

Finwitch:

You know, it's a bit different. Harry did say Voldemort came back -
albeit Seamus only heard that from Dumbledore. Mind you, the fact that
those articles *exist*, supports that Dumbledore was being honest and
not just *saying* that Harry said it.

While it's not valid to trust a person just because someone else does,
well - as far as Harry goes, he has already *said* Voldemort came
back, and doesn't understand why Seamus wants to hear him say so
again, or whether the question was just to say he thinks it was a lie
or whatever.

Mind you, Harry does NOT expect anyone giving him a chance to explain
himself. Dursleys never did, they just locked him up into that cupboard.

Asking for details was 'between lines', and Harry certainly didn't see
them. It's also noticeable that both Dean and Neville believe Harry,
*without* any details. Neville's the one with enough sense to say so
out loud, and not just expect Harry to get it.

And even if Harry was ready to tell the full story, he doesn't know
where to start. Entirely different than answering specific questions
of a professional editor when Harry also knows *why* the questions are
being asked as in giving an interview. (and any professional doing a
statistical study requiring asking questions from people ALWAYS tells
why they ask).

Harry IS a bit sensitive about being asked for an explanation without
knowing WHY someone asks that. Otherwise, it feels very uncomfortable.
I for one, am one who hates being asked questions about things just
like that. I'm not one to go around asking questions either because I
wouldn't be comfortable putting another into such situation I'd hate
to be in. Harry doesn't ask many questions himself, does he? So tell
me, why doesn't Seamus tell Harry what he thinks *before* he asks the
question? If he had, I think Harry might have told him.

Finwitch