Harry & Seamus.

[finwitch]

No: HPFGUIDX 115583


> Del replies :
> Maybe. But if Harry can't figure out that other kids don't like it
> when he insults their parents, then he's got a BIG relationship
> problem. After all, he already knows that both Ron and Draco don't
> take it well when someone insults their mother, so why should he
> expect Seamus to react differently ?

Finwitch:

Seamus came to Hogwarts.
 
> Finwitch wrote :
> "The question is back on whether you believe Harry, who has already
> *said* that Voldemort is back."
> 
> Del replies :
> When did he do that ? I can't remember Harry making a *public*
> statement that LV has returned. All the WW gets is *second-hand*
> testimonies. Harry himself *never* said a word about it in public. And
> that DOES make a huge difference.

He's said it twice. Sure, first time around it was only Dumbledore and
Sirius to hear it, next time it's at *Fudge* (who refuses to believe
him), whereas Hermione&Ron as well as Molly&Bill&Madam Pomfrey hear
him. Sure, Seamus didn't hear, but Harry doesn't know that. He did SAY
it to the Minister...

> Finwitch wrote :
> "Mind you, Harry does NOT expect anyone giving him a chance to explain
> himself."
> 
> Del replies :
> But he *does* expect everyone to simply believe what DD says ? How
> logical is that ?

Dumbledore isn't Harry, that's why. Harry doesn't emotionally expect
anyone to give him a fair chance, or treat him fairly, because that's
how his childhood with Dursleys was spent. Moreover, Harry believes
that everyone will automatically blame him or believe the worst of
him. That's what Dursleys did, after all, for 10 years, and every
summer after that. That's how he *feels*, and as unrational as it is,
he can't help it.

> Finwitch wrote :
> "Asking for details was 'between lines', and Harry certainly didn't
> see them."
> 
> Del replies :
> Between lines ? What Seamus said is : "Look... what *did* happen that
> night when... you know, when... with Cedric Diggory and all?" And JKR
> adds that "Seamus sounded nervous and eager at the same time."
> 
> I don't see any accusation in what Seamus said, or in the way he said
> it. But I DO see a desire for details. Harry got it wrong because he
> had already made up his mind that Seamus was against him.

Finwitch:

Harry's conditioned to expect that everyone is against him. Dursleys
were. Hagrid doesn't listen to him when he tries to tell what he's
seen; McGonagall doesn't believe him when he's trying to testify that
the stone is in danger. Then he saves the stone, nearly dying.
(Dumbledore tells him that everyone knows what happened, and no one's
asking Harry anything).

Dursleys treat him badly at the summer, he gets no letters except one
where he's wrongly accused for doing underage magic. Twins get scolded
for rescuing him.  Big trouble getting to Hogwarts. Almost everyone
believes Harry's the one doing the petrifications, and being Heir of
Slytherin, to the extenct of Harry doubting himself! No one bothers to
ask Harry - and if someone does, they don't believe him (except
Dumbledore/Ron/Hermione.).

At summer before third year, there's Aunt Marge with her accusations.
In addition, there's the trouble of Buckbeak and his trial - NO one
there believes Hagrid, Harry, Hermione & Ron. Nor are they given a
chance to testify for Sirius. (No one will believe it, says Dumbledore).

At summer, Harry gets accused for the Dark Mark, Winky is accused for
it...

During the fourth year, everyone, *including* Ron, accuses Harry of
putting his name into the Goblet and lying about it. While Gryffindors
think it's great, No ONE believes Harry when he tries to tell them he
didn't. And while Hermione believes Harry didn't do it, it's because
she trusts the *age line* and Dumbledore - not because she trusts Harry.

Harry gets accused of a lie by Vernon during the summer. Dudley
accuses Harry for the Dementors while all Harry did was SAVING him,
and Vernon nearly kills Harry. No support there, and then he gets all
these notes about the trial.

There's all that trickery about the trial even taking place, and then
Harry's not *allowed* to speak out details (as Fudge keeps
interrupting). While Dumbledore defends him, he avoids contact with
Harry. (leaving Harry believe that Dumbledore doesn't trust him). And
nearly half of Wizengamot don't believe that there were Dementors at
all...

With all that, why would Harry think anyone will believe *him*? And
besides, the truth, that Cedric was killed by Pettigrew, believed
dead, is even MORE unbelievable than that Voldemort killed him.

> Finwitch wrote :
> "So tell me, why doesn't Seamus tell Harry what he thinks *before* he
> asks the question? If he had, I think Harry might have told him."
> 
> Del replies :
> Maybe precisely because he was trying to make up his *own* mind ?

Finwitch:

So, why doesn't he say so? Probably just assumes that Harry grasps it?

Del:
> Seamus was torn between two very important authority figures : his
> mother, and his Headmaster. He was trying to figure out what *he*
thought.

Finwitch:

Harry doesn't know that. After all, Harry's been defying Dursleys all
his life, making his own conclusions about things... He fantasises
about having a supporting, loving family where he's allowed to be
himself and make his own mind...

Del:
> But no, Harry figures Seamus should *already* have made up his mind to
> follow Harry and DD blindly. *And* he blames Seamus for his mother's
> opinion. Totally unfair.

Finwitch:

Harry sees only two options. Either Seamus believes him and Dumbledore
and has completely deserted his mother or came to Hogwarts despite of
believing her for the sake of education. They DO have their OWLs this
year, after all. That's what the challenge was for.

Del:
> Moreover, if you look closely, you'll notice that neither Dean nor
> Neville seem to have made up their *own* minds either. Dean does *not*
> say that he believes Harry, and Neville simply follows his Gran's
> opinion (which of course is OK because Gran believes Harry, but how
> does Seamus dare defend his mother ? Not fair, I tell you).

Finwitch:

Dean simply says his parents don't know because he's not stupid enough
to tell them. Apparently he's content to wait or doesn't care either way.

Neville - the way he says it, reporting first what his guardian says
(like the others did, and only that) We believe Harry - states that he
has decided to believe Harry. Just because he happens to agree with
his Gran, doesn't mean he's *following* her blindly. I think Neville's
visits to his parents - tortured into insanity by Voldemort's
followers AFTER Voldemort was defeated - no doubt Gran's told Neville
all about it. About what happened last time Voldemort was raising - I
think Gran's told him all about *that* as well!

And um - Neville witnessed the event that started the whole 'Harry's
disturbed'-business. Trelawney stating he had a vision, wanting to
hear what he saw and for Harry to see MORE, and Harry complaining
about the head ache and running off. Neville may have concluded that
Harry had a vision that gave him a head ache, and that in Harry's
place, he wouldn't want that powerful vision to be interpreted as an
omen of his death... 

Finwitch