DD and the rat (was:Re: Minerva McGonagall-/Dumbledore)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 115680


Nora:
> One starts to wonder about Sirius' account of the DEs 
screaming at Peter in prison; unless you want to do the 'Oh, 
Sirius is lying out  of his ass' (which is always a dangerous 
move to make because it can then be done to ANYTHING), that's 
an interesting statement.<

Pippin:
Oh, Sirius is nothing if not sincere. We have to account for the 
DE's thinking that Wormtail set Master up. I'll get to that below. 
But as it bears on Jen's post also, I ask your patience.


Nora: 
> Two, Peter really is under a lot of stress.  I suspect that his  
functions as spy did not involve things like direct confrontation, 
but rather the passing of information here, there--and he's the 
type  of person who people don't *notice*, so that's a good role 
for him. Now, put him in a situation where he's 1) trapped 2) 
confronted by some very, very angry people 3) *outnumbered*, 
and you have a very different reaction. <

Pippin:

If the Sirius/Harry version of events is the true one, Peter 
*volunteered* that he was the Secret Keeper. "It has happened, 
My Lord...the Potters have made me their Secret-Keeper" and  "It 
must have been the finest moment of your miserable life, telling 
Voldemort you could hand him the Potters."

But Peter the bush league spy, throwing a useful bit of info 
Voldie's way now and then, doesn't mesh with Peter  who 
suddenly decides to smack one out of the park and betray the 
biggest secret the Order has, one that  would identify him as the 
betrayer.  Peter's got to have known how dangerous that would 
be. "You should have realized...if Voldemort didn't kill you, we 
would." Why should Peter take such a risk? Sirius would do 
something for a fine moment, but Peter?

Nora: 
> Also, we get into the complications of your invoked ESE!Lupin 
theory,  and I'm sure you don't need a reiteration of why the theory 
is ingenious yet problematic, right? :)  In fact, I'm getting rather  
confused about how it all fits into this.  Are you postulating a  
series of events in which Peter *was* the SK (this is not 
absolutely  proven, but close), but not the spy beforehand--a 
situation where  Voldie went and got to him when he became 
SK/because he was SK,  tipped off by ESE!Lupin?  In that case, 
no, I don't know why Voldie  wouldn't kill Peter and get rid of one 
more (if this is true, loyal)  Order member.  But it doesn't make a 
particular amount of sense,  while the more straightforward 
reading answers more of my questions...<

Pippin:
ESE!Lupin *is* complicated. Harry has often had to abandon his 
simple theories for more complicated ones.  At least it
doesn't involve time travel ...knock wood... <g>, and it doesn't 
require characters to do things they haven't been shown to be 
capable of in canon. And yes, I contend Peter was the SK but not 
the spy beforehand. I maintain he was betrayed, found, broken 
down within a short time (just as he was in the Shrieking Shack), 
branded with the Dark Mark, and forced to lead Voldemort to the 
Potters. 

I speculate: After the disaster at GH, Peter  tipped off Fudge that 
Sirius had betrayed the Potters and ran for it, knowing that the 
betrayer would have to come after him and silence him. He  
faked his death in front of all those Muggle witnesses, expecting 
that the DMLE would find Sirius guilty of his death. But the real 
spy was hunting too, and he's the one who killed the Muggles, 
though whether he was aiming at Peter or Sirius I can't say. 
Maybe, like Wormtongue in LOTR, his aim was poor because he 
couldn't decide which he hated more.

 I think Peter was innocent of killing the Muggles, and I don't think 
he wanted to betray his friends.  But he was still an illegal 
animagus and, however reluctantly, a servant of Voldemort and 
the betrayer of James and Lily. He had no reason to think he 
would receive mercy from the likes of Crouch, and as he says 
himself, he doesn't think he deserves it. 


> Pippin:

> > Does Peter have the brains or the power to have been 
> > Voldemort's spy for a whole year?
> 
> Jen: That's really the central question here: Is it believable that 
 Peter was able to spy against the Order for a year, without 
breaking  down in front of his old friends?<
> 
> Peter's characterization is ambiguous at best. He's a cringing,  
obsequious, "weak little thing" in the Shrieking Shack and a 
coldly competent hit-man in the graveyard. He makes a 
half-hearted, timid  plea to Voldemort for Harry's life at the 
beginning of GOF, then  calmly ties Harry to a gravestone in 
preparation for his torture and death. So which is it? Will the real 
Peter please stand up?<

Pippin:

Wormtail didn't "calmly" tie Harry to the gravestone. --Harry could 
hear shallow, fast breathing from under the hood [...]his fingers 
trembling uncontrollably, fumbling over the knots. --

A few minutes before that, somebody whom Harry did *not* see, 
but whom JKR has identified as "Wormtail", killed Cedric coldly 
and competently.

So Wormtail is  either the most dissociated personality since Dr. 
J and Mr. H, or, just possibly, there are two people called 
Wormtail in the story. We know there are two Tom Riddles and 
two Barty Crouches, and we have evidence of two Professor R.J. 
Lupins. Since Lupin never worked as a professor, the briefcase 
with that name and title in peeling letters can't orginally have 
been his. Then there's the Mark Evans kerfuffle--a character of 
*no* importance, but one who had to have a common name. 
Common, as in shared with other people?

We can't say this is a plot device JKR doesn't use. And while 
there really isn't a whole lot of point to Peter using the Wormtail 
alias among the Death Eaters, there is a great deal of point to 
another spy using it. 

So, even if Peter Pettigrew wasn't spying for a year, it is very 
possible that "Wormtail" was. It would be this "Wormtail"  who is 
indeed a coldly competent spy and murderer, whom the DE's in 
Azkaban blamed for their troubles. I think it's Lupin, because we 
know he's cool, competent, and  willing to kill in front of three 
witnesses. Even a lawful execution is not a fit sight for the Trio's 
eyes according to Hagrid, but Lupin seems to have no qualms 
about it at all. Very curious, that.

Pippin