Vengeance on Snape?Re: Snape--Abusive?

[syroun]

No: HPFGUIDX 115762


> > > Sigune:
> > > Yes, I've been wondering about that Order of Merlin too... But 
> > > I think that when it comes to assessing Snape, Dumbledore 
> > > might be a tad more reliable than Harry, so I wouldn't dismiss 
> > > his comment straight away. We don't know for sure what Snape 
> > > is doing in VW2, but in VW1 he was a spy, and NOT a member of 
> > > the Order of the Phoenix. 
>  
> Syroun asks:
> < Do we really know that?>
> 
> Sigune:
> Well, 1) we know from OotP that he's not in the group photo of the 
> Order Moody shows Harry; 

which proves nothing...

2) Black is surprised to hear Snape is at Hogwarts in PoA, which 
> suggests he didn't know what Snape was up to around the time of 
GH; 

not necessarily. It just shows that he was did not keep up on the 
professional progress of his adolescent enemy then or while in 
prison. If he was not privy to the everyday goings-on at Hogwarts, 
it would not be hard to imagine. We have no exact information on how 
long Snape has been at Hogwarts, do we?

3) in GoF he is surprised to hear Snape was a DE, and he never 
mentions anything like, 'Goody, and there was me thinking he was one 
of us - he was in the Order...

which, again, proves nothing...other than the fact that even Sirius, 
someone who hated Snape, did not think him capable of such a 
terrible feat. 

> 4) if Snape knew Moody as a fellow Order member, he would have no 
> reason to be so nervous around Fake!Moody in GoF, and he might 
> have suspected he was facing an impostor when Moody kept lashing 
> out at him.

again, not necessarily. Snape may have had a similar past with Moody 
as he had with Sirius, James, Lupin, et. Al. and may not have felt 
comfortable around him beause of that. It seems that few HP 
characters actually react to Snape as a old chum - why should Moody 
be any different? It is actually most likely that the fake Moody 
treated Snape exactly the same way that the real Moody would have, 
otherwise everyone would have questioned Moody's behaviour towards 
Snape as patronizing or pandering. The Moody character suspects 
others as a general outlook; why should Snape be any different?
> 
> 
> > > Sigune continues:
> > > I agree that Snape appears a loner etc, but I don't think that 
> > > precludes a certain craving for recognition. I also have a 
> > > problem with the assumption that the WW at large knows that 
> > > Snape was a DE. 
> 
> Finally, Syroun writes:
> < Does canon actually provide any proof that it was common 
> knowledge that Snape was a DE? In fact, canon shows that Snape 
> himself has to physically prove to Crouch Sr. that he was a DE by 
> showing Crouch his dark mark to convince him, albeit unsuccessfuly 
> of LV's return. It seemed to be quite a shock to Crouch.>
> 
> Sigune begs to differ:
> He shows the Mark to *Fudge*. By that time, Crouch Sr is dead. 

sorry, my mistake in misnaming characters. But the reaction stands. 
Even Fudge, the Minister of Magic did not know about the DE's and 
Snape's allegiance, let alone the WW at large... 

> Crouch Sr, by the way, KNEW about Snape's former DE allegiances: 
> he had been the prosecutor in the DE trials, and though we aren't 
> shown Snapes, we are shown Karkaroff's 'information session' in 
> which Crouch hears DD mention, yet again, that Snape has switched 
> sides. In fact, the point I was arguing in the paragraph you quote 
> was that NO, the public did not know about Snape's DE activities.
> 
Then we agree on that one point; we have no indication that Snape 
was ever brought to trial and even the information gleaned in 
that "session" was not to have become public knowledge. It would not 
serve the purposes of the OOTP to utilize Snape as a spy, if it had. 
He would likely be in Azkaban or dead. Espionage does 
not function well in the limelight. 

And, again to my point, Snape is likely to have served a specific 
tasks for LV and his past actions may still play an important role 
to the DE cause, even though we have been shown that he is a spy for 
the Order. JKR gives us indication that although Snape now appears 
to wear a white hat, we should not expect that he is fundamentally 
different. DD has said much the same.

There is a profound reason for that...to again, hone my original 
thesis.

Syroun