Snape and Magic Dishwasher. Was: Re: DD and the rat:

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 115969


> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" <pipdowns at e...> 
> wrote:
> > Not exactly. Snape *is* trying to provoke Harry - he's probably 
> > doing that in a way that also pays Sirius and Lupin back. Very 
> > precisely, in fact. There's likely to be an element of sadist in 
> > Snape's natural make-up, but Sirius is not completely undeserving 
> of 
> > Snape's nastiness in this case. One of the things Snape hears 
just 
> > before pulling off the cloak is Sirius announcing that Snape 
> > deserved to be Wolfie Chunks.  That Sirius is, in fact, not in 
any 
> > way repentant of a stupid trick that could have ended up killing 
> > Snape, getting his friend expelled, and possibly killing James 
> > Potter as well.


> Alla:
> 
> Oh, the infamous..."served him right". It is certainly a 
possibility  that Sirius is completely unrepentant of the stupid 
trick he played on Snape many years ago, but as you say, I find 
something VERY wrong with this picture.
Sirius is just escaped from the Hellhole named Azkaban. It is canon 
that Dementors leave you with your worst feelings, with your worst 
fears, if you might.
> 
Sirius leaves Azkaban driven by revenge against Peter and desire to 
protect Harry. He does not expect to hear or see Snape in Hogwarts, 
he does not even know that Snape is teaching.
 
> But the minute Lupin mentions trick, Sirius reacts VERY strongly. 
> Could it be that "serves him right" is something more that just 
> unrepentance? Could it be that Dementors forced Sirius to remember 
> some VERY unpleasant Snape/related moments?
> 
> Oh, the possibilities. :)

> Pip:
> 
> Snape had two chances to kill Sirius - firstly in the Shack itself, 
secondly by calling the Dementors back when he recovers 
consciousness. Instead, he takes him to Dumbledore. 

> Alla:
> 
> Yes, he does. IMO, because it is a possibility to get more glory 
for 
> him - you know, to catch the escaped murderer AND for the world to 
> know about it. It is much more pleasant to watch Dementors to kiss 
> Sirius and gloat with pleasure knowing that Harry will see it too, 
> for example. And of course, Order of Merlin.


> Pip:
> 
> > There are two Snapes in the books. One is the verbal picture. 
> That's 
> > the picture we get from the words Snape speaks, and Harry's 
> > interpretation of Snape. Leaving aside MD itself for a bit, my 
main 
> > contention with this character-view of Snape is that this verbal 
> > picture, this face value reading is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, 
and 
> > JKR is playing absolutely fair with us, because she's 
consistently, 
> > in each novel, giving us clues that what we 'see' isn't the whole 
> > picture.
> > 
> > The second Snape, is the picture we get from his *actions*. Not 
his 
> > words. That's picture's not of a nice guy, btw. But it is someone 
> > who (some random examples) will put someone he deeply dislikes on 
a 
> > stretcher and take him to Dumbledore (when he could have called 
the 
> > dementors back). It is someone who (in CoS) is backed up by the 
> > other staff when he faces Lockhart down. It's someone who will 
> > charge into a room containing a troll, or a werewolf at full 
moon, 
> > or an unknown imposter, to protect the pupils. It's someone who 
> will 
> > try to teach Harry occlumency, when he doesn't want to. Someone 
> > respected; who deserves respect ('Professor Snape, Harry').
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I don't think view of his actions and words is that separable. Of 
> course, Harry does not have a full picture of Snape, but even when 
he gets fuller and fuller picture, there is something which does not 
change - even when Harry knows that Snape on Dumbledore's side, Snape 
still a sadist. Whether he supports Light or not, it does not excuse, 
IMO, his gloating over humilation and distress of the pupils in his 
care.
Snape is capable of doing a right thing sometimes, of course, but how 
he gets there is important too and may cross out A LOT.Just my 
opinion, of course.
> 
> Pip, I remember you used to call Snape a git and I used to think 
that this a very, very tender name for him. Yes, sadist is the word I 
am much more comfortable with or as Nora puts it "mild streak of 
sadism".
> 
> By the way, what do you mean, same type of clues are planted about 
> Snape? You mean, he will turn out to be a traitor after all and 
Harry 
> will turn out to be right all along? :o)
> 
> Even I don't believe in ESE!Snape. Snape, who has not redeemed 
> himself yet, YES, but not ESE.