Vengeance on Snape?Re: Snape--Abusive?

[syroun]

No: HPFGUIDX 116172



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at y...> wrote:
> 
>  
> Syroun asked:
> > > < Do we really know that {Snape was a spy for Dumbledore and  
> > > < not a member of the Order]?>
> > > 
> Sigune answered:
> > > Well, 1) we know from OotP that he's not in the group photo of 
> > > the Order Moody shows Harry; 
> > 
> Syroun responded:
> > which proves nothing...
> 
(snip)
> Carol notes:
> It may not *prove* anything, but it can't be discounted as 
> *evidence.* And we do know that he was a spy for Dumbledore, 
> unknown to Sieius, who also didn't know that Snape had been a 
> Death Eater...If Snape had been in the Order, Sirius 
> would have known about it.
> 

Syroun responds:
Why do you think that Sirius would know about someone who was a spy, 
let alone Snape? There would be no reason to inform him of Snape's 
actions as a spy, or to inform anyone else, for that matter. The 
whole point of espionage is for the person performing the 
information gathering actions to be secretive enough to allow 
themselves typical social movement simultaneously. For Snape to have 
been known as a spy and member of the order by the whole order would 
only counteract his function as a spy. It makes no sense. As I have 
stated in earlier postings, it would also have long since been a 
death sentence. 

Aside from that, what witch or wizard who knew the history behind 
Sirius and Snape would expect them to behave in a civil manner 
towards one another, which would, again, give reason not to inform 
either of them about the workings of their opposite. Sirius is 
regarded as irrational even by DD, yet you believe that he would be 
trusted with information that one of his greatest enemies had been a 
DE, then changed his mind and now spies for DD and/or had become 
part of the order and not use that information against Snape out of 
pure spite? At Grimmauld Place, they both still act as though they 
are feuding 14 years old...childhood grudges die hard and both 
Sirius and Snape are at fault for that. 

(snip) 
> Carol responds:
> Actually, we do know how long he's been at Hogwarts. He tells 
> Umbridge in OoP that he's been teaching for fourteen years. (I can 
> find the quote if you need it.) The only question is whether Snape 
> began teaching at the beginning of term (September 1) or after 
> Godric's Hollow (October 31), just before Sirius was sent to 
> Azkaban. Either way, Sirius didn't know that Snape had been a 
> teacher at Hogwarts all those years.

Syroun:
Thanks for the information and I agree. But, it is most likely that 
Snape started the school year with all of the other teachers on Sept 
1. We have been shown that teacher replacements have been required 
only in extreme situations, (e.g. Hagrid). Such a situation, we 
would have likely heard about.

(snip) 
> Carol responds:
> The real Moody, watching Karkaroff's hearing in the Pensieve scene,
> reacts with suspicion when Dumbledore states that Snape is "no 
> more a Death Eater than I am." He clearly doesn't like Snape and 
> may well have been the one who arrested him. 

The real Moody trusts very few in the WW. It is a function of his 
profession. Snape is not the trustworthy type and this plays into my 
original thesis - Snape likely had a significant role as a DE 
skilled in potions that assisted LV in becoming immortal. Moody 
would not ever trust him after that, regardless of what he now 
professed. If Snape had ever been arrested, a number of people in 
the MoM would have known about it, a paper trail would exist that 
could have been made pubic. At any rate, eventually it would have 
leaked out. That would have made his value as a spy negligible to 
DD. Therefore, I doubt that he was ever arrested.

Just for the record, I do not think that Snape was an actual member 
of the first order but had become a spy for DD, and in turn, for the 
order during the LVWI. Isn't that almost better than having been an 
actual member, in terms of information gathering? 

Syroun