Dumbledore- Time, Wisdom, & Spies

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 116526


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "snow15145" <snow15145 at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> Steve/bboyminn:
> 
> That's one reason why I don't give much weight to the idea of
> chocolate frog cards acting as spys. I simply don't think that 
photos
> have sufficient depth to be anything but a cartoon/caricature verion
> of the real person. Also, while it has been somewhat implied, we
> really have never heard a photo communicate in any way. There have
> been implied minor vocalization, but no photo has ever talked.
> 
> Snow:
> This is an area that has been most puzzling especially since JKR's 
> statement, from the Edinburgh Book Festival, that the portraits 
more 
> or less repeat catch phrases. I have found several instances were 
the 
> portrait has presented itself with present day concerns that they 
> communicate about. For instance, there is Phineas who, upon hearing 
> of his great grandson's apparent death appears distraught and 
> proceeds to his Grimmald portrait for verification. (OOP The Lost 
> Prophecy "Am I to understand," [
] "that my great-great-grandson-
the 
> last of the Blacks-is dead?" [
] 
"I don't believe it,") Again with 
> Phineas, who makes an astute observation when Dumbledore escapes 
> apprehension, declares to Fudge, that if nothing else Dumbledore 
has 
> style. (OOP The Centaur and the Sneak "You know Minister, I 
disagree 
> with Dumbledore on many counts
but you cannot deny he's got 
style
") 
> These examples are of present day emotion to a present day 
situation 
> with a present day applicable emotional response. If a portrait 
only 
> continues to repeat catch phrases that he had heard or had said in 
> the past how could he possibly react to present circumstances with 
an 
> emotional verbal response?

Geoff:
The following is a reply which I wrote in message 95065. It was part 
of a thread "Empty portrait" which started at message 95040 if you 
want to follow it through.......

Quote begins:
"Potioncat:
> So far when we've seen these animated portraits, they seem very
live,
> and personable. But they are not the original person. They are
some
> sort of spell, copy, imitation. So I think if Harry comes across a
> portrait of Sirius, it will be an empty experience for him. If it
> does give him some comfort, like watching an old video of a loved
> one, it still won't be Sirius.

Geoff:
I don't think that's strictly true. In OOTP, we have seen various of
the portrait folk - Phineas Nigellus and Dilys Derwent for example -
who have been sent by Dumbledore to find out information and deliver
messages at points where they have another portrait of themselves.

I think that this has been discussed in a thread some time ago but
there is a suggestion that the portrait is sentient and has the
memories of its sitter up to the point in time where the painting was
executed. So, a portrait could engage in conversation with a person
perfectly coherently, assuming that the discussion did not go beyond
the then knowledge of the sitter, which is a little more than
watching an old video of a friend or relative.

However, if there was a portrait of Sirius, it would have to date
from before the Azkaban days and therefore, from Harry's point of
view, would not be helpful. If you want to discuss your teen angst
and your hearer hasn't got beyond you being in nappies, you've got
the wrong counsellor!"
End of quote.

But, added to that as has been suggested, these portraits could then 
pick up on events which are current and in which they, as 
the "portrait-entity", could be involved as far as their previous 
experience alllows.

Geoff
Pay a virtual visit to Exmoor and the 
preserved West Somerset Railway at:
http://www.aspectsofexmoor.com