Dumbledore- Time, Wisdom, & Spies - Portraits

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 116528


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "snow15145" <snow15145 at y...> wrote:
> 
> Steve/bboyminn:
> 
> That's one reason why I don't give much weight to the idea of
> chocolate frog cards acting as spys. I simply don't think that 
> photos have sufficient depth to be anything but a cartoon/caricature
> verion of the real person. ...


> Snow:
> This is an area that has been most puzzling especially since JKR's 
> statement, ..., that the portraits ... repeat catch phrases. I have 
> found several instances were the portrait has presented itself with 
> present day concerns that they communicate about. For instance, 
> there is Phineas who, upon hearing  of his great grandson's apparent
> death appears distraught ...edited...  These examples are of present
> day emotion to a present day situation  with a present day 
> applicable emotional response. If a portrait only continues to 
> repeat catch phrases that he had heard or had said in  the past how 
> could he possibly react to present circumstances with an emotional 
> verbal response?


bboyminn:

First, I think too many people take JKR's comments as the absolute,
all-inclusive, full and complete, definitive statement on a given
subject; not so. JKR is merely a commenting on an /aspect/ of a
subject. We manage to extend conversation on specific topics here for
days, imagine if JKR were here and we could pick her brain about every
minute aspect of a given subject. That certainly couldn't be concluded
in one quick comment.

Think of my illustration of the difference between the depth of a
photo and the depth of a portrait. I compared a magical photo
character to a character in a TV commercial; a caricature, almost a
cartoon, of a person, but while they lack depth, they are easily
recognisable; the harried husband, the stressed housewife, the cool
teen, the nerd, etc.... In a matter of a couple of seconds we identify
the character, but at the same time, that character has no range or
depth to their personality. I think the same principle applies to
magical photos; easily identifiable characters completely lacking in
depth.

A portrait on the other hand is like an actor playing role in a movie.
They are able to bring great depth and emotion, and represent the
original real-life character's personality, traits, and speech
patterns very accurately.  That illustrates a magical living portrait.
It has /apparent/ depth of emotion, character, and personality. 

JKR said in an interview which I did personally read, but have been
unable to track down again, that living magical portraits are created
by adding a piece of living tissue from the subject of the portrait to
the portrait itself. So, the magical portrait does contain some
/essense/ of the subject. That /essense/ is like a detailed biography
that the portrait actor can draw on, but even the best biography is
still only a small faction of the actual person.

JKR is making the point that no matter how well the portrait actor
portrays the subject, he is indeed not the subject, and any attempt to
explore that portrait image to the depth of the original living person
will ultimately fail. 

The portrait /actors/ do live in realtime, they are able to hold
reasonable conversations and dialogs, they are able to react to
realtime events in ways that minic the original subject, but just as
there is a limit to the depth to which a movie actor can portray a
character, there is a limit to which a magical living portrait can
portray it's subject.

This whole subject came up in relation to people wondering if Sirius
could reappear as a portrait, and thereby continue to be a part of
Harry's life. JKR is making the point that while the portrait might
act and respond /like/ Sirius, it would never have the depth, insight,
or ability to counsel or comfort Harry in a way that would be
satisfying. When the situation required true depth and insight, not
just /apparent/ depth and insight, the portrait would fall short and
leave Harry very unsatisfied and frustrated.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)