PoA Time-travel Question for those who think the past can be changed.

[tylerswaxlion]

No: HPFGUIDX 112538

There seem to be quite a few people who believe that there are more
than one timeline and that the past WAS changed in PoA.  The reasoning
seems to be:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When the Trio hears the axe fall, Beaky actually dies.  It's not just
the axe hitting the fence, but hitting Beaky.  The axe hits the fence
in a future version of the timeline, and the Trio is only mistaken
about Beaky dying in these "future" or "secondary" timelines.  Because
Beaky's really dead.

Later, Harry and Hermione go back in time and prevent Beaky from
dying.  They CHANGE the past.  There is "now" a brand new timeline
where where Beaky never dies, but there was a previous timeline where
he did.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We've all been debating using examples from science, logic, other
stories, etc., but I firmly believe that in PoA the past is NEVER
changed.  Whether or not it CAN change in JKR's world may be an
outside the novel debate.  Maybe wizards *can* change the past, but
they DO NOT CHANGE IT in PoA.

My big question for The-Past-Changed-in-PoA-Believers--what happened
to the future where Beaky died?  Because if Beaky died, Harry did too.

If there is more than one version of events--and multiples timelines
and/or a changeable past are **REQUIRED** if Buckbeak ever dies and
then doesn't die--why isn't Harry dead/kissed?  How did Harry go back
the "first" time to change anything and save Buckbeak if he wasn't
already there?  Who saved Harry, if there was a "timeline" *before* 
he went back and saved himself?  If Buckbeak died, so did Harry. (OK,
maybe he was just soul-sucked, same deal as that's worse than death.)
 A soul-sucked "Harry" isn't going back in time and doing anything. 
And the Harry we see go back in time has NOT been soul-sucked.

I think JKR makes it very clear that there is ONLY one timeline in
PoA.  Harry "goes back" to the ***same*** time he was attacked.  He's
in the same time twice--there is no "second" time.  There's just an
older Harry casting a Patronus on one side of the lake at the same
time a slightly younger Harry is being attacked by the Dementors on
the other side.

JKR even has Harry explain it--he knew he was able to cast a Patronus
on his second time through b/c he (his younger self) saw himself (his
older self) do it when the younger Harry lived through the attack. 
That's canon as events are written and as Harry describes it.  (sorry
again for the lack of books)

The events happen once; Harry experiences them twice b/c he TTs back
to the same time.  James was NEVER there.  Dumbledore confirms that
James wasn't there when he tells Harry he found his father in himself.

PoA is not "Back to the Future", which is fun, but logically
inconsistent multiple timeline/changeable past story.  Not that
anything prevents JKR from changing the rules in a future book--the
rules change between the first two Terminator movies, and both are
entertaining.  

However, what happens in *this* book is that Harry goes back via a TT
to the *same timeline.*  PoA is firmly, consistently, and logically a
one timeline book.  

Again, if you truly believe Buckbeak died and somehow that past was
changed into a different timeline when H&H went back, then you need to
explain HOW H&H could go back in time at all.  Because if there is a
timeline that exists in its entirety where Buckbeak dies and H&H go
back and "change" it, then the Dementor attack also happens in that
"first" timeline where there's no time-travelling.  Harry, Sirius, and
Hermione are killed/kissed in that timeline--b/c there is no Patronus
to save them b/c they haven't TTed yet.  Harry and Hermione never make
it to the hospital wing; Sirius never makes it to Hogwarts castle.

There are no Harry and Hermione to send back to change things if the
older Harry and Hermione aren't already back in time in the same
timeline.  It only seems like there are two timelines b/c an older H &
H are living them again, but they are *time-travelling* to the same
past.  

Harry cast the Patronus after he'd been saved, but since Harry was
TTed at the time, the Patronus and the attack happen simultaneously. 
Because of time travel, it seems like "after" to the older Harry. 
He's travelled back to that time.  Which means Future!Harry was
*there* the "first" time*--as JKR has Harry himself tell us.

The **time** happens once.  Harry happens twice.

We may never agree on this issue, but if you really think Buckbeak
died the "first time," you need to explain how Harry and Hermione
survived long enough in this "first time" to go back in time and
change things.  And you can't explain it in canon, b/c it's not there.    

It *could* have been written that way.  Other stories *have* been
written that way.  PoA is NOT written as a multiple timeline/changed
past story.  

Buckbeak never dies.  Neither does Harry.

Not in this book, anyway.

-TL