The DA (was: "Slytherin" Hermione?)

[huntergreen_3]

No: HPFGUIDX 112572

Valky previously:
> >>2 Voldemort is alive and kicking and mortally dangerous to every
> last inhabitant of the Wizard World. Someones gotta fight him!
> Dumbledores Army is doing the WW a service beyond anything else..<<

HunterGreen previously:
> How so? Most of the students are not personal targets of
>Voldemort, and are unlikely to encounter him unless they join the
>Order or become aurors, and in either case they'd be around older
>wizards who can train them.

Valky Replied:
>>I do see your point. The students are not personal targets, most of
them anyway. Yet they all have reason to believe that in Voldemorts
war its not personal. Cedric was lost to Voldemort in a sudden and
entirely impersonal instant, and the attacks of the Basilisk were
barely personal.<<

HunterGreen:
But in both of those cases, knowing DADA curses wouldn't have helped. 
Cedric was killed before he (or Harry) knew what was happening, and 
by the time you knew the basilisk was there, you were already dead. I 
see what you mean here, but the chances that Voldemort was going to 
break into the school while he was still incognito were very small. 
The DE's have nothing to gain by attacking children.

Valky:
>>This is all without mentioning Hermione's partially selfish and
personal motivation to learn from Harry because she has a pair of
Dentists for parents with no such equipment if they were to find
themselves by chance in the way of Voldemorts flight.<<

HunterGreen:
Hermione is a different matter. I'd say that Hermione, and Ron *do* 
need to learn DADA curses (although I don't really understand how 
they *taught* the curses to Harry the previous year without learning 
them themselves; the only exception being the patronus charm; in any 
case, we know they certainly know their way around expelliarmus). 
Harry could have taught them in the common room late at night or in 
the shrieking shack (since the three of them can fit under the 
invisibility cloak). Or he could have taught them (along with Ginny 
and Fred and George) in Grimmauld Place over Christmas break. 

Valky:
>>I am in not trying to say that Harry's teaching could prepare the
students for a battle with LV, far from it. We all see how the
battle between himself and DD plays out in the MOM. What student
could even begin to claim such glory as Dumbledore displays in this
battle.

However, the service is done for the WW by Harry showing students
how to understand defence in practice and by giving them reasonable
preparation for mortal danger. Something that they should be
learning in the DADA classroom certainly it is more dangerous for
them to capitulate to Umbridge's self interested blindness.<<

HunterGreen:
I suppose so. However, its such a small section of students, that it 
makes me wonder how much of a difference it will make. Its 
interesting to note here that because of the constant-changing DADA 
teachers, they are so behind that fifth years need to be taught 
expelliarmus and stupify, which, IMO, should be basic defense spells. 
(as an aside, is it just me, or did Lupin spend too much of his class 
time teaching about dark creatures? or is third-year the 'dark-
creature year'?)

>>Furthermore Harry is offering an insight into Lord Voldemort [snip] 
Harry is passing information, giving members of the WW a
clear advantage in the war against Voldemort.

Later when his story is published in the Quibbler and later in the
Daily Prophet some of this advantage is extended to the greater
wizard community, but those kids in DA have the first hand account
better than the newspapers do. Each have gleaned a gem of Harrys
wisdom that they now carry with them, even Marietta.
>From little things big things grow.<<

HunterGreen:
Except that Harry doesn't really want to talk about any of that, and 
for the most part he doesn't. He only agreed to *teach*, not lecture. 
The quibbler article did much more for that cause.

HunterGreen previously:
>I know its always *possible* that one of them will encounter
>Voldemort or a DE, but how likely is it to happen that year? (if the
>DA had waited to be an allowed group, it would have only needed to
>wait a year).

Valky replied:
>>They can't necessarily know this. Umbridge is by chance removed from
Hogwarts at the end of the year, she may never have left, and may
even be Headmaster into book six had things gone differently. Nor
can they know that LV isn't going to be walking the streets
flagrantly declaring mayhem in the coming Holiday season. For that
matter neither do we.<<

HunterGreen:
The way I see it is that Voldemort is not a threat while he's 
remaining incognito, and Umbridge can only remain in power while 
Voldemort's incognito (because the moment he reveals himself no one 
is going to support her or Fudge). Yes, there is a chance that he 
could choose summer or winter to 'come out', but then we are back to 
the small probability that he, or the DE's will be going after a 
teenager (other than Harry Potter, that is). In any case, Ginnyand 
the trio have the summer to learn curses from Harry or Order members, 
and the others can ask their parents, or practice curses on their 
own.  My point is not that its unnecessary to learn the curses, but 
just not SO necessary that they should all risk expulsion. 


HunterGreen previously:
>The only members of the group who end up using the spells are the
>ones that *willingly* go with Harry/Ron/Hermione *because* they know
the spells. It almost became a danger more than anything else,
>because it gave them all a false sense of capability against DE's
>(and its a miracle none of them weren't killed in the DoM battle).

Valky replied:
>>The DA did not become the danger though. It was their love of Harry
that propelled them into danger. The DA brought people who were
already quite fond of Harry close enough for them to be given an
opportunity to go laying their lives down for him.
It is those three people Ginny, Luna and Neville who, personally,
already had an inclination to throw themselves at the gauntlet for
something they believe in anyway. DA was merely a mechanism that
brought them closer to Harry and his danger.<<

HunterGreen:
I suppose you're right. They (Ginny and Neville at least) would have 
wanted to go anyway, even if the DA had not existed. But maybe not. 
It would, at least, have been harder for them to convince Harry that 
they were going if it wasn't for the DA. 

HunterGreen previously:
> On top of that, the DA wasn't *so* important that it was worth
> risking all of them getting expelled

Valky replied:
>>I agree in hindsight, but we have a luxury of that now that the
students simply didn't in the Hogshead that day. The looming threat
of war was inciting them into swift action, I would be lying if I
said I wouldn't do the same myself, right or wrong and at any risk
of expulsion. Its only seems so irrational looking back on the
events of the year from this side of it. Can you honestly say that
while you were reading OOtP chapters 15-17 the first time round that
you *didn't* support Harry blazing his usual trail into the throes,
fully and unreservedly? I know I certainly wanted him to.<<

HunterGreen:
I honestly can't remember. The DA certainly made the book more 
interesting though (and I do remember not enjoying it very much the 
first time through). In that sense, when I'm reading something (or 
watching something), I'm of two minds: One wants the main character 
to stay out of trouble (for his own sake), and the other doesn't, 
because its more exciting if they don't (I recently had that 
experience with a bad kidnapping movie, I kept slapping my forehead 
when the main character was doing stupid things, yet I was quietly 
happy for his stupidity because it made the movie more interesting).
 
However, I don't recall thinking the DA was terribly *important*. I 
don't blame Harry for thinking it was important, it did give him one 
thing to enjoy at school that year (and let him feel like he was 
doing some good in a year that was rather horrible). Nor do I blame 
the others for thinking it was very important. On a final note 
though, as much as you say the DA was doing a service, the adults in 
the Order (or Molly Weasley at least), didn't see it that way.