[HPforGrownups] Re: The Sneak Mark (was "Slytherin" Hermione?)

[theotokos]

No: HPFGUIDX 112861

Let me just say, Pippin, you have just made a very strong case in my view.  You may just have swung me a bit.
 
Tonks_op

>> Also, after the kids signed the paper "there was an odd feeling in  the group now. It was as thought they had just signed some kind of  contract." (p.347)<<

Pippin:
>It isn't a contract unless the parties involved agree to *all* the provisions.<

theotokos:

I don't much care about it being a contract, as I have stated before.  That is legal and not in the mind of these kids.  The point is what was going to happen with the DA was explained.  Everybody was given the same information and conditions.  The manner in which punishment is carried out is not the point.  When I got in trouble in school I couldn't say, "Oh, but you didn't say I would get swats.  Since you didn't explicitly tell me, you can't punish me."  The point was I broke a rule and it was not for me to decide an acceptable punishment.  The appropriateness of the punishment is a different issue, as Pippin is wise to point out.  The point here is that Hermione was under no obligation to spell out the consequences, IMO.

Pippin:
>If so, then Hermione usurped Harry's power and only got his 
consent after the fact. That is an abuse of power similar to that of one Dolores Umbridge, and I think the use of a mutilating punishment deliberately emphasizes the similarity. Hermione is on a rather slippery slope.<

Theotokos:
 
This is where you got me, Pippin.  I find it hard, if I am being honest with myself, to disagree here.  (HELP somebody come up with a good argument so I don't have to feel like I am equating Hermione with Umbridge!)  Hermione has always been a bit bold.  She butts into the train cabin in PS/SS to tell R and H their business, i.e. put on your robes.  She continues this behavior through half the book until R and H save her and they become friends, at which time nothing changes but H and R forgive her more often.  

It is true she did not consult with Harry or Ron on the jinx she put on the parchment, just as Delores did not consult Fudge when she sent those Dementors to that alley.  She, Umbridge, believed she was taking care of a problem in an effective manner with little to no fuss.  She is, however, twisted.  I can't say Hermione is twisted.  I find the zit jinx humorous like so many of the WW jinxes.  What about Ginny's bat-boogie hex (sp?)?  And Crabbe and Goyels boils and Ron's slugs.  The WW is not for the faint of heart.  

Umbridge tried to murder Harry for purporting an idea she disagrees with and fears.  Hermione would never permanently disfigure or kill someone--except in self-defense.  Hermione, does however, need to reassess her motives and value system.  She really must stop with SPEW.  She needs a wake-up call.  I love her but, you are correct Pippin, she is not always right and she is heading down a slippery slope.
 
Pippin:
>I don't believe Hermione is a Slytherin--if you asked her whether you should use any means to achieve your ends she'd say no. But she has a tendency to assume that because she is a good 
person, any means which  does not cause her conscience to 
revolt is okay-- and some fans may make that mistake along with 
her. But  Dumbledore's analysis of his failure with  Harry shows
us the limits of relying on your internalized sense of values.<

Theotokos:
 
What else can one do?  Are we to allow other people to tell us what our values should be and hope those people are altruistic?  DD's failure was not from relying on his internalized sense of values.  His failure came from not following what he knew to be the correct path in favor of easing Harry's strain.  His mistake was underestimating Harry and second guessing his own aims--not doing what he, DD, knew to be the correct thing.  He had two conflicting sets of values at work.  That is a difficult situation.

Theotokos