Snape and Harry again. WasRe: Snape in the Shrieking Shack (was re:time-turning)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 112968

> Carol adds:

huge snip.

> Just because Harry dislikes Snape and he's presented *from Harry's
> POV* as a "greasy git" who is sarcastic to his students doesn't 
mean
> that he's evil. Dumbledore trusts him. Maybe we should, too.


Alla:

Maybe we should or maybe we should not. Yesterday I was worrying 
that I went into defending Snape mode for too long. :o)


I wholeheartedly agree with you that there is absolutely NO canon 
whatsoever to indicate what exactly Snape did while being a DE, but 
just 
because we saw certain DE committing certain crimes, does not mean, 
IMO, that Snape was given a free pass and allowed not to commit 
crimes (what crimes - we don't know). Personally I am hoping that he 
did a lot of bad things, otherwise,as I said earlier, it cheapens 
his redemption in my eyes.

Snape is sarcastic to his students? If you put "sadistic" instead, I 
would probably agree with you. Nope, Snape is not evil, but he is 
not a good person either. Person with honor? Yes, I hope so, though 
we don't know for sure yet. Good erson? I doubt it.

Yes, I would say the fact that Harry views him as "greasy git" 
is not a reason for dislike of said character.


I am trying to pick the strongest reason for my partial (although 
very strong one) dislike of Snape personality and the fact that 
Snape enjoys to cause another human beings emotional pain comes back 
over and over again.

I am having a lot of trouble calling such person a "good one"

Hmmm. Which examples to choose?.


1. The first Potions lesson inn PS/SS was cited so many times, that 
I really don't want to do it again today.
I may even agree with you that Potions, which Snape mentions 
especially putting "stopper in death" will become important at the 
end, but you are not saying that Snape KNEW that in PS/SS?
I mean, it would be a nice foreshadowing, but what Snape got to do 
with it? How it makes his absolutely undeserved attack at Harry, who 
just been thrown out in the world unknown , looks less asdistic?


2. Then we have Snape ranting and raving about James all through 
PoA  (you are just like your father, Potter).

 Since GoF is the book I reread most recetnly, I will quote couple 
scenes from there.

3.
GOF, when Pansy threws at Hermione the copy of "Witch Weekly". Snape 
takes the magazine away from them. I can understand that. Even 
though Trio did not bring it to the lessons, you are not supposed to 
read the paper during the potions lessons, so I will pretend that 
Snape does not know who brought the magazine to class.

I would even be able to let it pass, if Snape say took points and 
let it be, but he decides to read the magasine out loud.

"The dungeon rang with Slytherin's laughter, and an unpleasant  
smile curled Snape's thin mouth. To Harry's fury, he began to read 
the article aloud.
"Harry Potter's Secret Headache'... dear, dear, Potter, what's 
ailing you now? "A boy like no other, perhaps..."
Harry could feel his face burning. Snape was pausing at the end of 
every sentence to allow the Slytherins a hearty laugh. The article 
sounded ten times worse when read by Snape. Even Hermione was 
blushing scarlet by now" - p.515, paperback, GoF

4.
Harry trying to warn Dumbledore about Crouch Sr. was recently 
discussed and even though I don't consider it to be the example of 
ESE! Snape I definitely think of it as one of the best examples of 
Snape's sadistic nature.
Here is the quote:

"Mr. Crouch!" Harry shouted. "From the Ministry! He is ill or 
something - he is in the forest, he wants to see Dumbledore! Just 
give me the password up to ----"
The headmaster is busy, Potter," said Snape, his thin mouth curling 
into unpleasant smile.
"I've got to tell Dumbledore!" Harry yelled.
"Didn't you hear me, Potter?"
Harry could tell Snape was thoroughly enjoying himself, denying 
Harry the thing he wanted when he was so panicky.
"Look," said Harry angrily, "Crouch isn't right --- he's --- he's 
out of his mind  - he says he wants to warn----" - GoF, p.558, 
paperback.

There is nothing in this scene that Harry even theoretically done 
wrong, he is worried about Crouch, he is scared and nervous.
I am willing to assume that Snape knew that Dumbledore is in his 
office. What exactly stopped him from telling Harry to wait a minute 
and Headmaster will be here? I think nothing except Snape being 
Snape.




Many argued that Harry is able to handle what Snape throws at him. 
yes, I said many times that Harry is not Neville, but why shoud it 
matter?
I think Snape's intentions should matter, not Harry's strength.
 But, I think I posted earlier that Snape does manage to make Harry 
afraid of himself in OOP (to his delight, I am sure :o)).


"Wondering what on earth was doing here, he jumped when Snape's cold 
voice came out of the corner.
"Shut the door behind you, Potter."
Harry did as he was told with the horrible feeling that he was 
imprisoning himself as he did so." -OOP, paperback, p.529


"Snape pulled out his wand from an inside pocket of his robes and 
Harry tensed in his chair, but Snape merely raised the wand to his 
temple and placed its tip into the greasy roots of his hair" - OOP, 
paperback, p.533.



Alla