[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape and Harry again.

[feklar]

No: HPFGUIDX 113309

> Feklar:
>
> > Personally, I don't like SB.  I was dismayed in GOF when he
> admitted his
> > solution to the dragons was the Conjuctivitus Curse (ironically,
> the "dark"
> > contestant's solution) and he kind of went downhill from there.
> I'm
> > inclined to give him a pass on his early years because he was
> presumably
> > raised to be vicious and mean from an early age.  And I can see
> why he might
> > have feared and hated Snape from the get go.  

> Alla:
>
> You said you are willing to give Sirius a pass for his early years,
> because of his family upbringing am I correct?

Feklar

I should specify, I menat 'til he was about 13.  By that point, he'd been at
Hogwarts a couple of years, in Gryffindor, no less.  He would have learned
from the bahavior of teachers and other students that there were different
ways of dealing with frustration, conflict and opposition.  He was hitting
the point where he should have begun to understand the moral import of his
actions.  So where an 11 yo Sirius might not know a different way to react
or that there was even anything wrong with reacting to things he didn't like
with abuse, by 13 he had to have known he was behaving badly.  By 15 and 17,
there is really no excuse IMO.

Alla:

> So, do we have any examples of Sirius applying his family methods or
> being vicious and abusive in his later years? (except slashing fat
> Lady portrait, please).


Feklar:

In school, there are indications he was abusive not only to Snape but also
other students (and the Shack incident showed he was not only murderous, but
indifferent to the well-being of others, namely Remus).

In GOF, the dragon.
In POA, dragging Ron off and breaking his leg--like with the dragon, he
chose a violent solution without regard to innocent victims.
1981 Pettigrew confrontation--again, he didn't care that there were innocent
bystanders.  He had to take time to track Peter down, so he wasn't in the
"heat of battle" when he found him, he could have followed and waited, but
chose to attck without regard to the safety of others.
Treatment of Kreacher, as with Snape, he prefers to be abusive and attack
first with things he doesn't like.  It's possible it's standard in dark
households to treat house elves like that, but again, he had 7 years of
Hogwarts (and sneaking into the kitchens there) to learn there was a
different way.

In OOTP, I had the feeling that ultimately, Sirius would have rejected Harry
as viciously as he lovingly embraced him in POA -- he was already edging
into snide insults -- because Harry wasn't what he wanted.


Alla:

> About Sirius unreliability, well, some posters did argue precisely
> what you said that Sirius cannot be reliable because of his Dark
> upbringing  and I just flipped it backwards that precisely because
> of his upbringing he is quite reliable.



Feklar:

I specified he was unreliable about Sanpe's character.  We don't know about
the facts, but I do think he immediately saw Snape as a stand-in for his
family and was probably incapable of seeing the reality of Snape's
personality and character.  Indeed, Sirius seems so eager to attack and
express his hatred of his family that Snape's real character was probably
irrelevant.  In other words, I think Snape would have been his target no
matter what.


Feklar