Was Crouch Junior a DE? (was Re: ESE!Fudge)

[mhbobbin]

No: HPFGUIDX 113567

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Hannah" <hannahmarder at y...> 
wrote:
> > > > HunterGreen wrote:
> > > > We don't even know for sure if Crouch Jr. was a DE at all 
> before he was arrested. 
> > > 
> > > Hannah originally: Well, he had a place in the circle of 
DE's.  
> <snip>
>  
> > mhbobbin responded:
> > I'm sorry to raise the ghastly endless unresolved discussion of 
> > *GASP* The Three Missing Death Eaters, but when it is said that 
> > Crouch Junior had an empty place in the DE Circle, that is  an 
> > unresolved assumption. The one we are led to believe by Madame 
> > Rowling, who likes to send us wandering down the wrong path. 
> snip snip snip> > 
 The key is the word *re-entered* my service.  If we absolutely 
knew that Crouch Junior was a DE before the Fall, then  it would be 
>safer to assume he was the most faithful servant, stationed at 
Hogwarts that LV refers to. IMO, JKR left the door open just wide 
> enough for us to consider it just might be Snape that is the Third 
> Death Eater. 
> <snip>> 
> 
> Hannah now: I don't have my copy of GoF on hand, but IIRC doesn't 
LV 
> go on and say something about the loyal DE at Hogwarts being the 
one 
> responsible for Harry being present?  And that seems certain to be 
> Crouch, by his own admission under veritaserum.  
> 
> The 're-entered my service' comment I took to refer to re-entering 
> after LV's fall.  I assumed that their service was taken to have 
> ended at that point, so all of them were re-entering.  Also, if 
> Snape was a spy right up to the fall, then from LV's pov he hadn't 
> left his service any more than the other DE's had.
> 
> But till the 6th/ maybe 7th book I'll agree that the identity of 
the  missing DE's is written in pencil only.


mhbobbin:
 In Ch 33 The Death Eaters:
"One too cowardly to return...he will pay. One, who i believe has 
left me forever..he will be killed, of course...and one, who remains 
my most faithful servant, and who has already re-entered my service. 
He is at Hogwarts, that faithful servant, and it was through his 
efforts that our young friend arrived here tonight..."

It is straightforward to think that the three are Karkoroff (who 
leaves that nite and has not been heard from since), Snape, and 
Crouch Junior. Except through Book 5, Snape is alive and apparently 
a good buddy of Lucius. Not threatened in any way we know.  Maybe LV 
plans to kill him later. Maybe he's changed his mind. And if Snape 
was the first DE--has he been made to pay? No word yet.

The wording about the the Third Death EAter is most interesting. If 
Crouch Junior was conclusively a DE prior to LV's Fall, then I would 
be more comfortable assuming that the Third DE was Crouch Jr and 
that he had *re-entered* the service. But that is far from clear, 
and significant doubt has been sown. No resolution yet. 

The wording could also refer to Snape. Whether Snape can be trusted 
and why DD has faith in Snape is one of the big mysteries of the 
story. This is fuel for that fire. And I believe the wording is 
precisely the way it is so that Snape cannot be ruled out as the 
Third Death Eater. But it doesn't quite fit what happens in DD's 
office after Harry tells his story. Snape certainly doesn't behave 
like someone who has already *re-entered" the service, not even to 
fool LV as a double-agent. Showing Fudge his death mark is a nice 
touch.  

Could the description fit anyone else?  Well, Ludo Bagman was once 
accused of being a DE, was very suspicious, and he fits the 
description at the time LV makes the statement. He's at Hogwarts. He 
has helped deliver Harry. And he is AWOL during Book Five.

And how about Fudge? He's one of the judges for the final Task, at 
Hogwarts when LV describes the third DE.

Could Bagman be the First DE? Possibly. I like the words "he will 
pay" as a clue. Then Karkoroff could be the second DE. Maybe he's 
already dead. 

This makes me crazy. I lean towards thinking it's Crouch Junior but 
that seems so straightforward for this author who likes to point us 
in one direction so she can surprise us later.  It gets back to the 
word **re-entered*.  If Crouch Jr. is the 3rd DE, it means that the 
wrenching trial scene in the Penseive is all an act. Crouch Jr. 
isn't innocent and deserves his father's wrath. 

Interesting how JKR has given us two absolutely  known former DEs 
(Snape, Kark.), two suspected DEs (Bagman, Crouch Jr.) and at least 
other character (Fudge) to consider for these three missing death 
eaters.

mhbobbin