Was Crouch Junior a DE? (was Re: ESE!Fudge)

Wed Sep 22 13:41:52 UTC 2004

No: HPFGUIDX 113591

> mhbobbin then wrote:
>  In Ch 33 The Death Eaters:
> "One too cowardly to return...he will pay. One, who i believe has 
> left me forever..he will be killed, of course...and one, who 
remains my most faithful servant, and who has already re-entered my 
service. He is at Hogwarts, that faithful servant, and it was 
through his efforts that our young friend arrived here tonight..."
> 
> It is straightforward to think that the three are Karkoroff (who 
> leaves that nite and has not been heard from since), Snape, and 
> Crouch Junior.<snip>
> 
> The wording about the the Third Death EAter is most interesting. 
If Crouch Junior was conclusively a DE prior to LV's Fall, then I 
would be more comfortable assuming that the Third DE was Crouch Jr 
and that he had *re-entered* the service. <snip>

> The wording could also refer to Snape. Whether Snape can be 
trusted and why DD has faith in Snape is one of the big mysteries of 
the story. This is fuel for that fire. And I believe the wording is 
> precisely the way it is so that Snape cannot be ruled out as the 
> Third Death Eater. <snip>
> 
> Could the description fit anyone else?  Well, Ludo Bagman was once 
> accused of being a DE, was very suspicious, and he fits the 
> description at the time LV makes the statement. He's at Hogwarts. 
He has helped deliver Harry. And he is AWOL during Book Five.
> 
> And how about Fudge? He's one of the judges for the final Task, at 
> Hogwarts when LV describes the third DE.
> 
> Could Bagman be the First DE? Possibly. I like the words "he will 
> pay" as a clue. Then Karkoroff could be the second DE. Maybe he's 
> already dead. 
> 
> This makes me crazy. I lean towards thinking it's Crouch Junior 
but that seems so straightforward for this author who likes to point 
us in one direction so she can surprise us later.  It gets back to 
the word **re-entered*.  If Crouch Jr. is the 3rd DE, it means that 
the wrenching trial scene in the Penseive is all an act. Crouch Jr. 
> isn't innocent and deserves his father's wrath. 
> 
> Interesting how JKR has given us two absolutely  known former DEs 
> (Snape, Kark.), two suspected DEs (Bagman, Crouch Jr.) and at 
least other character (Fudge) to consider for these three missing 
death eaters.

Hannah now:  It is interesting, and there probably is a surprise in 
there somewhere, this being JKR!  Brilliant post mhbobbin, sorry to 
hav snipped bits of it.  I agree that it's not written in indeliable 
ink, but I still believe that the 'loyal servant at Hogwarts' has to 
be Crouch Jr., by elimination.

'It was through his efforts that our young friend arrived here 
tonight.'  What actions led to Harry being at the graveyard?  First, 
putting his name in the goblet (Crouch Jr.)  Second, getting him 
through the tasks alive and with a reasonable mark (Crouch Jr.).  
Third, portkey-ifying the triwizard cup to get him there (Crouch 
Jr.) Fourth, rigging the maze so that Harry could get through and 
reach the cup first (Crouch Jr.)

The one person who, IMO, can take credit for Harry being there is 
Crouch Jr.  Let's look at the alternatives for the 'loyalist DE' 
(sounds like we're deciding on an award or something!)  Snape: as 
far as we can tell has done nothing to contribute to Harry being 
there.  He is angry when Harry's name comes out of the Goblet and 
doesn't even disguise his feelings very well, suggesting he is also 
surprised.  He certainly gives Harry no help with his tasks.

Fudge: He doesn't have much to do with the triwizard tournament, as 
far as I can tell.  He only turns up to judge the final task when 
Crouch is missing.  He can't really be considered responsible for 
Harry being there.

Karkaroff: Can't take the credit for Harry being there.  He tried to 
stop Harry competing at all, and then gave him very low marks.  And 
ran away at the end.

Bagman: He does give Harry high marks in the tasks, and would 
probably have helped him cheat if Harry had asked, but ultimately he 
isn't the one who put Harry's name in the goblet or rigged the 
tasks.  The high marks aren't that important in getting him through -
 although it's easier for Crouch Jr. to get Harry to the cup when he 
has a head start, he could probably have still managed it if he'd 
not had it.

So I think that Crouch Jr. is the only person he could possibly be 
referring to with that comment.  I do believe the pensieve scene is 
an act - we do know that Crouch Jr. is a good actor.  As for the 
other 2 missing DE's... I've never been able to make up my mind, and 
am sure they aren't who we're meant to think they are.
Hannah