Was Crouch Junior a DE? (was Re: ESE!Fudge)

[scoutmom21113]

No: HPFGUIDX 113598

mhbobbin:
The wording about the Third Death Eater is most interesting. If 
Crouch Junior was conclusively a DE prior to LV's Fall, then I would 
be more comfortable assuming that the Third DE was Crouch Jr and 
that he had *re-entered* the service. But that is far from clear, 
and significant doubt has been sown. No resolution yet.

Bookworm:
Since reading GoF, I've thought that the Karkaroff/Snape/Crouch 
triumvirate was too easy to assume.  At the time, I argued Bagman 
was the cowardly one (because of the way he was running from his 
debts to the goblins), but reading this thread makes me think he 
might have been the faithful DE and his cowardice is a cover.

Canon against Crouch Junior being the third missing DE:
If Junior was the `most faithful servant' would he have
shrieked during his trial: "I didn't, I swear it Father,
don't send me back to the dementors - " and "Mother, stop
him, Mother, I didn't do it, it wasn't me!" [GoF, Ch30]

This doesn't sound very faithful.  Bellatrix was standing right
next to him, so it is probable she reported it to Voldemort.  Fudge, 
OTOH, was very quick to have him `kissed' so that he
couldn't tell anything more.  Was it so he couldn't name
Fudge?  Or so that no one would realize that he [Junior] *wasn't* 
guilty of earlier crimes?
 
"`The Lestranges should stand here,' said Voldemort quietly.
`But they are entombed in Azkaban.  They were faithful. They went
to Azkaban rather than denounce me....When Azkaban is broken open, 
the Lestranges will be honored beyond their dreams.'" [GoF, Ch33]

The Lestranges were `faithful' and didn't renounce
Voldemort.  It doesn't make sense that Junior would also be 
described as `the faithful servant' even though he calls
himself that. [GoF, Ch35]

Canon for Bagman being the third missing DE:
Hannah now: 
'It was through his efforts that our young friend arrived here 
tonight.' What actions led to Harry being at the graveyard? First, 
putting his name in the goblet (Crouch Jr.)

Bookworm:
Before Harry's name could go into the goblet, there had to be a 
tournament.

"`There have been several attempts over the centuries to
reinstate the tournament,' Dumbledore continued, `none of
which has been very successful.  However, our own Departments of 
International Magical Cooperation and *Magical Games and Sports* 
have decided the time is ripe for another attempt.'" (my
emphasis) [GoF, Ch12]

Naturally, the Minister for Magical Games and Sports would be 
involved in the negotiations, but just who `decided the time is 
ripe'?  Bagman plays the bumbling fool very well.  His
dissembling during his trial put all the blame on Rookwood, but he 
never specifically denied being a DE.  

"`She [Bertha Jorkins] told me that the Triwizard Tournament
would be played at Hogwarts this year.  She told me that she knew of 
a faithful Death Eater who would be only too willing to help me, if 
I could only contact him.  She told me many things...'" [GoF,
Ch33]

Who was Bertha's boss who refused to search when she went
missing? Bagman.

This quote indicates that the Tournament was being planned before 
Bertha ran into Voldemort.  However, we have been told that after 
Godric's Hollow, the DEs wanted revenge.  After Sirius'
escape in PoA, discussion of Godric's Hollow and Harry's
survival would be a main topic of discussion in the WW, renewing 
public awareness of Harry.  It wouldn't be unusual for Bagman as 
the `faithful servant' to plot revenge on Voldemort's
behalf.  When Voldemort turned up personally (in a manner of 
speaking), Bagman would have delivered Harry to his master.

Note that Chapter Seven (where Harry meets him - "Bagman did the 
smallest of double takes when he heard Harry's name...") is
titled *Bagman* and Crouch.  Bagman gets more than six pages of text 
compared to Crouch's two.

Throwaway comment by Crouch Senior during Bagman's trial: The day 
Ludo Bagman joins us will be a sad day for the Ministry...." 
Could it be that it actually was a sad day...?"

mhbobbin:
Interesting how JKR has given us two absolutely known former DEs 
(Snape, Kark.), two suspected DEs (Bagman, Crouch Jr.) and at least 
other character (Fudge) to consider for these three missing death 
eaters.

Bookworm:
We wouldn't want her to make it easy for us, would we? <eg>

I'm not 100% positive of my own arguments here (I haven't
figured out how Fudge fits into this whole picture), but am positive 
some of you will disagree. <bg>

Ravenclaw Bookworm