Self-taught Occlumency? Yes, ...Sort of...

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 126919


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nrenka" <nrenka at y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
> wrote:
> 


> > Pippin(?)
> >
> > Point is, Harry didn't try, didn't ask. It's canon that there is 
> > writing on Imperius resistance, which Snape says requires similar 
> > technique.

> Nora asked:
> 
> Can you point me to the 'writing' part of this canon?  I see Crouch!
> Moody saying that Imperius can be resisted, and this can be taught.
> 

bboyminn:

After the class in which Moody puts the students under the Imperius
Curse, Ron said-
- - - GoF Am Ed Hb Pg 233 - - -
"... And when are we supposed to read up on resisting the Imperius
Curse with everything else we've got to do?"
- - -end quote- - - 

Since they were given homework on the Imperius Curse, that does seem
to imply that there are some authoratative books written on the subject.

In general, regarding whether Occlumency can be self-taught or learned
strictly from books, within certain boundaries, I don't think so.
However, I do believe a wizard (or witch) could gradually through
experience come to discover that they had this talent, and from their
refine it both through practice and through consulting resource books
to increase their understanding and aid them in their refinement.
Harry, however, is much to young and inexperienced to realize and
develop this skill without outside help. 

Even if Hermione learned the Legilimens Spell, which is related to but
not the same as the Legilimens Skill, I'm not sure Harry would allow
her to use it on him more than once or twice. Once he realized how
deeply it allowed her to penetrate his mind, and to what extent it
allowed the spell caster to see intimate and personal details, I think
he would put a stop to it. There are certain things that teenage boys
do and think that they really don't want to reveal to the best mates
(male or female). Much better to have a neutral distant third party. 

I think Harry did demonstrate that he has good (great? maybe, maybe
not, but certainly good) natural ability at Occlumency. The problem is
that the teaching methods and teaching environment was so adversarial
that there was no way that Snape and Harry could cooperate and
function effectively. 

First, it put Harry into a position where his deepest most intimate
secrets were accessable to his (relatively speaking) worst enemy. That
creates a huge strain in and of itself. 

Second, you can't order an emotional person to be calm, it just
doesn't work the way. Snape ordering Harry to calm himself, is about
like poking an anger person with a sharp stick and wondering why he
doesn't calm down. An emotional person can be calmed, and a person who
is not so much 'emotional' as just aggitated, can also be calmed down.
There are very standard straight forward techniques for doing this;
ancient techniques. If Snape truly care whether Harry cleared his
mind, he would have given him some of these techniques. 

Third, Snape's snarky brute force technique was far from the best
method. Even if I accept that Snape's general method was the standard
way to teach Occlumency, he still applied it poorly. He seemed to
offer no advice, made no references to effective strategies or
techniques, nor did he take a measure approach (start small and work
your way up); it was full force, head on, no information, no
instruction, no advice. It was more like an assault than a class. Of
course, what else would anyone expect if they put Snape and Harry
together in a room under these circumstance. I'm somewhat surprised
the both survived it as well as they did. 

Fourth, the Legilimens lessons were an unusual experience for Harry. I
got the impression that he was curious about the cascade of images
that came from his mind, and was actually interested in seeing them
UNTIL something very personal appeared, then he was able to stop the
cascade immediately. 

So, in this last item we see the measure of Harry real ability, when
he wants them to stop, he makes them stop. 

As to teaching yourself or learning without an experienced teacher, I
think it is an extremely difficult task. But, I make the exception
that a person, like Snape, could discover this ability on their own,
probably by experiencing it a few times and thereby becoming aware of
it, from there they could possibly refine and develop it. But I think
Harry, Ron, and Hermione are far to young and inexperienced to
accomplish this.

Now in the next books, Harry does have some experience, and Hermione
surely is able to gather knowledge on the subject. So, self-help is
possible at this point, but we still hit the snag I pointed out, who
does Harry trust enough, to potential reveal his deepest most intimate
secrets too? I think Ron and Hermione are much to close to him for him
to reveal himself that deeply.

The only unquestionable progress I suspect will be made by Harry on
his own. He now knows he has this ability, and he knows how important
it is, so I'm sure he will continue. If for no other reason that to
learn to control the link between himself and Voldemort. First, to
protect the Order. Second, he has discovered that the link can be
useful, but he has to control it, he has to control how and when he
and Voldemort enter each other's minds. I think that will be very
critical in the future.

Though, I believe the above is true, I'm not discounting the
possibility of help, encouragement, and even instruction from other
people like Dumbledore, Remus, Moody, etc...

Just a few thoughts.

Steve