Is Snape nice or good and other current Snape threads
potioncat
willsonkmom at msn.com
Tue Apr 5 14:54:49 UTC 2005
No: HPFGUIDX 127131
Potioncat:
I may have merged two threads in this post, but I've included post
numbers for each heading. Here's my reactions to several posts.
Thanks to Penapart Elf who helped me through some of the techno-
problems of combining posts.
127094
Kate wrote
* So, if someone could please explain to me why they do believe Snape
in this
> scene, that Sirius indeed meant to actually *kill* him, I'd be
really interested.
snipping Julie's answer
Potioncat:
There are two camps here: those who find Black more reliable and
those who trust Snape more. Depending on the day of the week or phase
of the moon, or the horoscope, you'll find more of one than the other
and it'll sway the posts.
I'll echo what others have said, Snape truly thinks Black was trying
to kill him. Swayed toward Snape, you understand his anger at having
been put into such a dangerous situation. From his standpoint, the
two possible outcomes were that he would be killed or become a
werewolf. From Black's standpoint (assuming he was impulsive and not
really trying to "hurt" Snape) the outcome would be that Snape would
be scared out of his wits. So adult Snape still thinks Black was
trying to kill him and adult Black thinks Snape deserved the scare.
Look at it from Dumbledore's point of view. (Assuming a lot here.)
One student is a conniving boy who has talent and potential. The
other is an impulsive, talented boy who has moments of cruelty. Both
have some family history to overcome. The boys loathe each other, but
they are as similar as they are different. Dumbledore sees a spark in
each of them and has a fondness for each of them.
Severus has been made the butt of a very dangerous joke. We don't
know the whole story. Neither, it turns out, does Dumbledore. But he
knows something we don't. He has two boys before him, both with
potential and a latent goodness if you will. What to do? Although the
risk was there (that seems undisputed among the characters) no harm
was done. So he took whatever action and time moved on. Black and
Snape of course, did not.
Imagine your younger brother or your son was tricked into going to a
swimming pool where an alligator had been hidden. What would you
think of the trickster? Now imagine your younger brother or son was
the trickster. What do you think now?
As for reliability, whenever Snape speaks about the Marauders, or one
of them talks about Snape, I don't take it as reliable at all.
127097
Alla:
But if Snape figured out that Remus was a werewolf ( I am not sure
if you share the speculation that Prank ocurred after Pensieve
scene), things are becoming very interesting.
Potioncat:
By the OWLs, both Severus and Remus were 16. Not sure about James and
Sirius. Just tossing that bit of clue out there. It may be as
important as Mark Evans.
We know Snape was reading over the test. We know there were several
questions about werewolves on it. We don't know what portion Snape
was reading. The vampire section, perhaps? And we know much later,
Snape will use a DADA lecture/assignment to reveal Lupin. But we
don't really know (yet) if he suspected anything that night. You
would think, if he expected to see a werewolf, he would have gone in
better prepared. Actually, I can't wait to find out just what did
happen...knowing very well, I might not.
127100
Bookworm:
There's a quote relating to this subject floating around in my head
that I think comes from a WWII general - something like "Yes, he's
an SOB, but he's *our* SOB." Can any of our military/history buffs
identify it?
Potioncat:
The "good, not nice" argument gets worked over twelve ways from
Sunday. So I think I'll adapt the above quote: Snape's an SOB, but
he's our SOB. Excuse me, I meant to say, "Professor Snape is an SOB,
but he's our SOB" I am firmly set on the idea that Snape is a
patriot, working for the good of the cause. He is not a pleasant man.
Being on the side of good isn't going to make him a pleasant man. But
he has come through in ways that other "good guys" haven't.
127118
Janis wrote:
And what about my example of Umbridge? Is she good or bad? She's
neither
on DE nor OotP side, I suppose?
Potioncat:
Now, there's an interesting thought. She is also a genuinely
unpleasant person, and in my mind much worse than just unpleasant.
She certainly uses any means to an end, including illegal means. At
the time of OoP, it appears she is no supporter of LV, but she abhors
Dumbledore. Her mindset is more closely aligned with LV's philosophy,
and I can't see her supporting DD in anything. Whether she would
actively support LV is another question
Nora wrote:
snip
> In that regard, and I humbly submit that *so far* this has been
> supported textually as well, being not horrible is an important
(but not sole!) component of the good.
>
Potioncat:
But for some reason, JKR has put Snape here. For some reason she has
both DD and McG supporting and trusting Snape. I suspect there's a
reason, or maybe a lesson here. I'm not sure who will get the lesson,
Snape or Harry.
OK, I've lost the number for Nora's post. But hers is the one I
actually "replied" to. Shesh! You have no idea how long this has
taken!
More information about the HPforGrownups
archive