James and Sirius (was: Snape vs. Sirius (was: Snape's Stubbornness)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 127209


Betsy: 
It's also interesting to me that James redeemes himself and wins 
both Dumbledore's approval, and quite possibly Lily's love by 
pulling away from Sirius' influence.<
 
Alla:
I'd like to know what are you basing this assumption on? Do you 
mean after school or while still in Hogwarts?<
 
Betsy:
<SNIP>
I'm taking a leap with Lily.  Who knows what finally changes her 
mind.  But I'm guessing that James starts to take things a bit more 
seriously (no pun intended) after the infamous Prank.

Alla:

Lily agreed to Sirius being a Secret Keeper. She apparently agreed to 
Sirius' suggestion to switch Secret Keepers. I think it is possible 
that she did trust Sirius after all, but that is just me of course.


Alla:
If you are talking about Hogwarts times, then may I submit that we 
don't know who was more under whose influence.<
<snip>
 
Betsy:
I'm going to disagree with you here.  In the one scene JKR shows 
James and Sirius interacting, James was *most definitely* under 
Sirius' influence.  The attack on Snape occured because Sirius was 
bored and James was looking for a way to entertain him.  Even 
*Harry* picks up on that.  And when he confronts Sirius about it 
later, Sirius does not deny it.

It can be argued that this is just one interaction, but I submit 
that when an author has limited time in which to introduce a 
character she doesn't waste her precious words by having the 
character act *out* of character.

Alla:

I think we are putting different meaning  into "under influence'. I 
am talking about under influence in more global sense than being an 
idiot in one scene.

And yes, JKR definitely cannot afford to waste space, but she drops 
hints ( as Sirius staying with James family) which made me think that 
at least quite often James was an influence in Sirius life, but 
again - just me.

Alla earlier:
If you are talking about after Hogwarts time, then I see even less 
signs of James pulling away from Sirius. he named him Harry's 
Godfather, he was present at the Cristening. James asked Sirius to 
become a Secret Keeper. I don't see any signs of them parting the 
ways.
 
Betsy:
No, James doesn't fully pull away from Sirius.  Which, 
unfortunately, leads to his and Lily's death.  But, by wrecking the 
Prank Sirius set up (and I love Redhen's theory that Sirius was 
drunk at the time - thanks to Amber for linking that post in message 
# 127145) James did show himself capable of second guessing Sirius.
 
Alla:

I disagree with your assertion " not pulling away from Sirius  - 
leads to James and Lily death" I don't think that it is supported by 
the text.

I wanted to read Red Hen theory, but unfortunately my computer won't 
let me go there. Grrr.

JMO,

Alla