Snape vs. Sirius ( Prank and Life Debts) LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 127220


Ravenclaw Bookworm wrote:
> 
> <snip>
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What we know is that Dumbledore told Harry that James had saved 
Severus' life.  We have assumed he referred to the Prank, because 
Severus keeps accusing Sirius of trying to murder him.  Is it 
possible we are being fooled - that this isn't the event Dumbledore 
referred to?  Could there have been another time when James really 
did save Severus' life - from a real threat and not a prank?

Marianne: 
<<sits stunned for several seconds>> Oh. Well. That would be a 
kicker, wouldn't it? Let's say you're right, and the James/Severus 
life debt arose from some other incident.  Snape still thinks in PoA 
that Sirius tried, at the age of 16, to kill him (Snape). So does 
this mean that in addition to our much-discussed Prank, there was 
another instance when Sirius said or did something to lead Snape 
into potential mortal danger?  Geez, if that's the case, no wonder 
Snape still has that giant chip labeled "Black" on his shoulder!


Alla:

I am a little stunned too, Bookworm and Marianne. Yes, that would 
effectively make Prank a non-issue, but then it would beg more 
questions, wouldn't it? 

Let's look at Snape's tirade and Dumbledore response again.

"Sirius Black showed he was capable of murder at the age sixteen," 
he breathed. "You haven't forgotten that, Headmaster? you haven't 
forgotten that he once tried to kill me?"

"My memory is as good as it ever was, Severus," said Dumbledore 
quietly" - POA, p.391

It seems that Snape believes that Sirius tried to kill him only 
once , but now I do wonder whether he was sixteen at the time of the 
prank or not.

I also still wonder what may Dumbledore's response mean. What DOES 
he remember?



Marianne 
And, if JKR had led us astray, and there is still this hidden 
incident, then perhaps that leads support to those who have 
postulated that we've made too much of the Prank because Remus seems 
to hold no lasting outrage or anger towards Sirius over how the 
potential lethal outcome would have affected Werewolf!Remus.

Alla:

Yep, Remus sure does not seem to be very upset in the Shack, doesn't 
he?

I thought about something else, when I was rereading this chapter, 
which we discussed one million times or more. :)

Look at the Prank account by Remus

"We were in the same year, you know, and we - er - didn't like each 
other very much. He especially disliked James. Jealous, I think, of 
James' talent on the Quidditch field... anyway Snape had seen me 
crossing on the grounds with Madam Pomfrey one evening as she led me 
toward the Whomping Willow to transform . Sirius thought it would 
be - er- amusing, to tell Snape all he had to do was prod the knot 
on the treee trunk with a  long stick, and he'd be able to get in 
after me. Well, of course , Snape tried it - if he'd got as far as 
this house, he'd have met a fully grown werewolf - but your father, 
who'd heard what Sirius had done, went after Snape and pulled him 
back, at great risk to his life... Snape glimpsed me , though, at 
the end of the tunnel. He was forbidden by Dumbledore to tell 
anybody, but from that time on he knew what I was..." - PoA, p.357

OK, couple of things. To me dots after "Jealous of Quidditch talent" 
may indicate that there is something else Snape could have been 
jealous of James. Lily? Something or somebody totally unknown yet?

Another thing - Remus does not say that Sirius told Snape how to get 
there. He says Sirius THOUGHT it would be amusing to tell Snape how 
to get to the Shack. Now, obviously Sirius told it to somebody, but 
I am more and more thinking that that SOMEBODY was not Snape.

I mean I totally accept the possibility of staged conversation  and 
Sirius making sure that Snape overhears it, but I also see the 
possibility that Sirius was running his mouth to Peter or even to 
Lily about how amusing it will be and  did not see Snape overhearing 
them.

Remus also says that James heard that Sirius done and went there. 
Who told him that? Sirius himself ? Possible. Or may be that other 
person, who saw Snape going to the Shack and putting two and two 
together?

By the way, if it was a full moon , why James and Sirius were not 
with Remus yet, when Snape came?

Another outlandish speculation , which builds on the speculation 
that Snape figured out who Remus was prior to going to the Shack.

Could it be that Snape wanted to try and see if he can win fight 
with werewolf for some unknown reason? Maybe somebody in his family 
got bitten and Snape wanted to see whether he is strong enough to 
win the fight? 


Marianne: 
OTOH, it would almost strike me as being a bit over-the-top for JKR 
to now have to introduce a second major incident.  Unless she's 
never going to clear it all up for us, which I would find highly 
unsatisfactory.


Alla:

You may be right in a sense that it IS Harry's story and maybe JKR 
won't want to complicate the backstory even more, but no, no, no, 
she will clear it for us. She promised after all. :-)

Just my opinion,

Alla, who really really wants to read HBP now and book 7 very 
shortly after.