Narcissistic!Snape (was: Whither Snape?) [long!]

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 127341


>>Betsy:
<snip>
>I've been long confused as to why folks think Snape is making a 
mountain out of a mole-hill regarding the Prank.  He. Nearly. DIED.  
That's huge.> 

>>SSSusan:
>FWIW, since you included a snip of my post before responding with 
this comment, I would like to remark that the issue of whether Snape 
should or shouldn't be angry about the prank wasn't a part of 
anything I was arguing.  (Yup, I'd have been angry, too.)<

Betsy:
I included that snip of your post for two fairly different reasons.

1) I didn't want to snip Magda's funny (because if something's funny 
once, it *must* be repeated *g*), and I needed your post to feed 
into the one-liner.

2) I did misunderstand what you were saying.  I thought you were 
saying that for Snape to still be upset about his near murder was, 
basically, crazy.

>>SSSusan:
>I was pointing out that I believe Snape is a good fit for the 
*clinical* definition of a narcissistic personality, as opposed to 
the more colloquial use of the term.  I believe Snape's emphasis 
on "me" in that sentence could be indicative of his desire to have 
DD validate his (Snape's) importance.<
<snip>

Betsy:
Now this I can get a little more behind, because I do agree that 
Snape has a high opinion of Dumbledore, and wants to be validated by 
him.  I don't think this means Snape is crazy.  Actually, I think 
it's rather a sane way of thinking. (Of course, all I know of mental 
health I learned from Oprah and Dr. Drew, so take this as you will. 
*g*)  

Of all the people Snape could have picked as a father-figure, 
Dumbledore is probably one of the best.  And if you consider that 
Snape more than likely placed first Lucius Malfoy and then Voldemort 
into that role, I would say Snape is actually improving himself.

  
>>SSSusan:
<snip> 
>In fact, while narcissistic!Snape may seem to be saying he's more 
complex than pissed, I like it precisely because in some ways it IS 
very simple -- it explains so *much* all in one package.  His 
getting along w/ DD (who is empathetic and validates him)...<

Betsy:
So you think Snape fell in with Dumbledore, not for any moral 
reasons, but because Dumbledore fed his validation need better than 
Voldemort?  Because, honestly, if Snape was this easily manipulated, 
I doubt Dumbledore would trust him so implicitly.  I also think 
Voldemort (who strikes me as *very* good at using someone's 
psychological weaknesses against them) would have a tighter grip on 
Snape.

>>SSSusan:
>...his unwillingness to change even though Harry is important and 
NEEDS to learn...<

Betsy:
I've read your comments on this before.  Basically you feel, if I 
have this right, that since Snape isn't reaching Harry with his 
current teaching methods, he should adopt a different method.  A 
question I have is, how do we know Snape *isn't* succeeding in 
teaching Harry what he feels Harry needs to know?  I still contend 
that Snape has done a *much* better job at teaching Harry Potions 
than he's been given credit for - and I think Harry's Potion OWL 
will bare this out.  As to other lessons, since we're not sure what 
those lessons might be, it's hard to judge.  Perhaps Snape has been 
put in charge of teaching Harry to stand up to sarcastic bastards. 
*eg*

>>SSSusan:
>...his outrage over the lost Order of Merlin...<

Betsy:
I've always thought Lupin was stretching the truth on this one, much 
as I distrust his "Snape was jealous of James' Quidditch skills" 
comment.  Both ideas are so far out of whack with the Severus Snape 
we've met in the books that I think Lupin is making a sly dig in the 
first instance, and out and out covering up in the second.  Lupin is 
a very deep character.  He ain't just a sweet professor who loves 
chocolate.  Though I agree that Snape was looking forward to 
receiving some type of acknowledgement of his accomplishments.  I 
just think the Marauders getting away *again,* hit him harder than 
the loss of his Order of Merlin. 

>>SSSusan:
>...his hateful treatment of Harry from the *start,*...<

Betsy:
I can agree on this one.  At least, I think it could well be *one* 
of the reasons behind Snape's opening gambit with Harry.  I think 
there is a certain feeling of rivalry Snape has towards Sirius and 
probably James.  I can see a bit of Harry-as-James slipping in 
here.  (Though I don't think that's all that was going on.)

>>SSSusan:
>...his nastiness to Hermione...<

Betsy:
I think that has more to do with Hermione being a cheat and an 
annoyance.  She's interfered in his classroom *so* many times.  I 
can't see a man as particular as Snape having any patience with 
those sort of antics. (I thought it was interesting that one of 
Harry's first experiences as a teacher for the DA was annoyance with 
Hermione.  I think JKR was pointing something out there.)

>>SSSusan:
>In some ways, this label makes things *simpler* -- it certainly 
makes Snape more understandable in my eyes, anyway.<

Betsy:
I think I've got a clearer idea of what you mean by clinical 
narcissism, and I can see how it applies to Snape.  I just don't 
want to take it to the extreme of "Snape got hit by the crazy-stick" 
because I don't think Snape is crazy.  Actually, as we learn more 
about him and what all he's been through, I think Snape is amazingly 
sane.

Betsy