Narcissistic!Snape (was: Whither Snape?) [long!]

[nrenka]

No: HPFGUIDX 127365


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:

<massive snippage>

> Betsy:
> Or the reaction of Snape when confronted with a kid who closely 
> resembles the boy who sexually humiliated him and then nearly 
> killed him. 

This is sloppy Sirius 'nearly killed him', James 'sexually 
humiliated' him.  It rather fits in with Narcissistic!Snape not to 
make fine little niggling distinctions like that, no?  [I wonder if 
that one time that my friends Ducky got pantsed by a fratboy 
registered in his mind as sexual humiliation...]

> Or confronted with a kid that showing an iota of friendliness 
> to would out his role as spy on the DEs.  We the readers are fully 
> aware of how much Harry hates the spotlight.  Snape is not.  And, 
> frankly, after seeing James as a boy it's apparent why Snape made 
> the assumptions he did.

I don't think it is.  I think it takes a particular temperament, 
character, set of mind to look at a child from having known his 
father at school and go "Opp, just like the old man, he is", and then 
proceed to behave that way in the face of all evidence.
 
> I also think JKR would mock Snape's false title, just 
> as she did with Lockhart's supposed expertise.  

She does mock his DADA knowledge... :)

> Betsy:
> See, I think Harry did well on his OWL *because* of Snape, not in 
> spite of him.  Harry didn't study and learn potions because he had 
> a love of the subject and wouldn't let Snape turn him off.  He 
> studied so that Snape wouldn't have anything to sneer at him over, 
> and because if Harry didn't study Snape would have made his life an 
> *even more* living hell.  Plus, after the tension of Snape's 
> classroom, the test itself was a breeze.  Again, that is *because* 
> of Snape. 

Digression: I have a friend here who encountered a professor who 
disliked her from the beginning, and made her course through one of 
the required subject areas as miserable as humanly possible--complete 
with personal cutdowns, snide remarks, etc.  He taught the material 
in class and she learned it, so one might say "Why yes, she learned 
it from Professor Z".  However, it would probably be more accurate to 
say that she learned it *despite* him, for his energies were devoted 
to telling her how inadequate and what an idiot she was.

I see Harry and Snape paralleling this situation.  Saying that Harry 
learned it because Snape was teaching it seems a profoundly facile 
reading of the situation to me, pegging off generally ill intent into 
the realm of "But he learned something, right?"

> Betsy:
> And *I* don't want to get into another Occlumency argument. :)  
> Though I still think Harry didn't learn occlumency because Harry 
> didn't want to learn occlumency.  I doubt Lupin would have fared 
> much better.

I think Lupin would have fared much better for the simple reason that 
Harry would trust him, as Harry has far more reason to trust him.  
Trust is a thing built upon everyday interactions.  Daily pettiness 
and bile directed at a person is not conducive to building a bond of 
trust for working on something so deeply personal.

> Betsy:
> How does that have anything to do with the Order of Merlin?  Snape 
> is furious because Sirius Black, the man who tried to kill him 
> while they were students, escaped his retribution, again, with the 
> help of a Potter, again. (Harry, this time.)  We hear nothing about 
> the Order of Merlin until the next morning, from Lupin, who has a 
> very good reason to make a very sly dig against Snape.

Actually, the general diagnosis stands whether it's the Order of 
Merlin or Sirius Black.  It's the amazingly violent reaction to 
the 'disappointment' that makes one wonder.  Not to mention that 
Snape set himself up for it in the first place by not heeding 
Dumbledore's words.

> Betsy:
> I hope I don't come across as too quickly dismissive.  I did read 
> through the research you've done.  But the problem with the NPD 
> diagnosis, as I see it, is that we are not seeing Snape in a 
> vacuum.  Snape has been reminded of a fairly ugly personal history 
> since Harry came to Hogwarts.  Several of his reactions are less 
> than fully stable, but I think there are several understandable 
> reasons behind Snape's reactions.  

But you know, it's completely and utterly not exclusive of the NPD 
explanation to note that Snape has problems with his personal 
history.  It's the nature of the problems that he has, and the ways 
that they manifest themselves, that line up so neatly with aspects of 
NPD.

Prominent amongst these are things thematically emphasized with 
Snape: his inability or unwillingness to rethink positions when faced 
with new evidence, his general arrogance and self-confidence in his 
own opinions, and the tendency to think that it's all about him (see 
all of PoA, for instance).

Of course, a lot of this could prove out, or could not.  It strikes 
me as a fairly weak explanation to just go "Oh, personal history" and 
not look very carefully at how and why that personal history is being 
processed, and the particular reactions made.

-Nora still notes that the Draco pool is open for entries