Narcissistic!Snape (was: Whither Snape?) [long!]

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 127418


Pippin:
>>>It seems to me far more straightforward to see Snape as a fragile
ego, struggling to avoid admitting that he can't defend himself.
than as a hyperinflated one. Lockhart, when he knows he's
outgunned, has no shame at all about running away.
*That*'s* Narcissism.<<<

SSSusan:
But, see, this is what I've been working to express!  NPD *doesn't* 
boil down to "conceited" nor to *simply* a hyperinflated ego.  In 
fact, I *agree* with you that Snape has a fragile ego!  

See this bit from my post #127352:
>>I think one has to give the definitions/characteristics of NPD
a real look before considering it bunk, rather than just
thinking "narcissism = crazy" or "narcissism = extreme vanity."
It's more complex than that. One has to get away from the notion
that a narcissist is STURDY individual with a healthy, positive
ego. There *is* an inflated ego presented to the world, and an
arrogance. But it's an overcompensating, it's a masking a self-
image which, while positive, is FRAGILELY so.<<

As I see it, for the narcissist it's all about how FRAGILE the 
internal construct is.  There isn't a whole lotta introspection going 
on with a narcissist; it's too frightening to look in there.  So, 
yes, there's an arrogance and an inflated sense of self-worth, but 
it's fragile.


Pippin:
>>> I really can't square Narcissistic!Snape with the man who grips 
the back of his chair as he asks how McGonagall can be sure someone
has been taken by the monster, or the one who saved Harry's life
first year and has never yet brought it up to him. Not once.<<<

Nora:
>>I don't think it means that he can't be concerned and doesn't care.
There's an unknown hanging over this of why Snape ditched the DEs,
which should tell us something deep about his character, be it self-
interest, moral conversion, revenge--I don't know, and neither does
anyone but JKR. The narcissism aspect does speak to some of the
insecurities and behavioral peculiarities that he seems to evince.
He doesn't say anything about the first-year incident (not that
everyone agrees that is a straightforward case of 'Snape saves
Harry's *life*'), but one wonders if the "You should be thanking me
on bended knee" isn't an explosion of built-up frustration.<<


SSSusan:
I am not positive I'm right about this NPD "diagnosis" of Snape; yet 
I am pretty positive that Snape exhibits several narcissistic traits 
[::waves at Kemper::].  I would certainly never say that Snape is the 
*most* narcissistic person I've ever read about or encountered, but I 
think there's enough of it there to add that narcissistic! 
descriptor.  

Now, Pippin raises an interesting question about the things which 
*don't* square for her with the narcissistic tag.  And Nora mentions 
a very key issue in WHY Snape ditched Voldy & the DEs.  This really 
will be the key, for me, in deciding whether NPD is the appropriate 
construct to be considering when reading Snape, and when we find out 
why he left, I think I'll either say "Aha!" or I'll say, "Hmmm.  
Well, okay, not NDP, then, but still some narcissistic traits."

By way of example, if Snape had some sort of epiphany based upon 
introspection and reflection, and THAT'S what caused him to leave the 
DEs?  Then, uh-uh, no way does that fit with NPD.  Narcissists just 
AIN'T big on introspection, and their self-reports are notoriously 
unreliable.  *If*, however, Snape left Voldy after some event... 
something which Snape took as a MAJOR **personal** affront 
[Kneasy's "Killed his wife & kids" scenario, for instance?], then I 
think there will be additional support for viewing Snape in the 
Narcissistic!Snape light.


Pippin:
> Some of that [description of Asperger's Syndrome] sounds eerily 
> like Snape and some of it doesn't. I don't think Snape was created 
> with one hand on the keyboard and the other in an abnormal 
> psychology text book. I think he's a composite of 
> several "difficult" people that JKR has known or observed in real 
> life.

And this is very possible, Pippin.  OTOH, JKR seems to be someone 
pretty familiar with mental health & psychological development 
issues -- the Dementors, Depression, teenage angst and all that -- 
and if a person has encountered an NPD, the symptoms aren't hard to 
recall. <g>  Remember, too, that you credit JKR with being a good 
enough writer to have built a character in Lupin who is believable as 
both good guy and ESE!  JKR is talented, she knows how to do 
research, she's put a lot of effort into building characters we can 
see a LOT in.  If she wanted to paint Snape as a narcissist, I don't 
think she'd have any trouble doing so well.  

Again, more canon will assist us, of course, and the Leaving Voldy 
piece of the puzzle will likely make or break the idea I raised.

Siriusly Snapey Susan