Narcissistic!Snape (was: Whither Snape?) [long!]

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 127376


>>Betsy:
>Or the reaction of Snape when confronted with a kid who closely 
resembles the boy who sexually humiliated him and then nearly killed 
him.< 

>>Nora:
>This is sloppy Sirius 'nearly killed him', James 'sexually 
humiliated' him.  It rather fits in with Narcissistic!Snape not to 
make fine little niggling distinctions like that, no?

Betsy:
Erm, actually Sirius *and* James sexually humiliated Snape.  And from 
Snape's POV, James *and* Sirius tried to kill him.  James got "cold 
feet" and backed out of the joke. (PoA Scholastic Ed. p.285)  Neat 
enough for you?

>>Nora:
>[I wonder if that one time that my friends Ducky got pantsed by a 
fratboy registered in his mind as sexual humiliation...]<

Betsy:
Yeah, I was waiting for someone to equate being dangled upside down, 
genitalia on display for a mixed crowd to laugh at (if James went 
through with his threat, of course) with getting pantsed.  I think 
it's the length of time involved in the display that pushes it over 
the edge of school-boy antics into aggressive, sexual humiliaton, 
IMO.  (If Death Eaters think it's good enough for Muggle torture, 
after all...)

>>Nora:
<snip>
>I think it takes a particular temperament, character, set of mind to 
look at a child from having known his father at school and go "Opp, 
just like the old man, he is", and then proceed to behave that way in 
the face of all evidence.<

Betsy:
Good thing it's not that simple, huh?

>>Betsy:
>I also think JKR would mock Snape's false title, just as she did 
with Lockhart's supposed expertise.<
  
>>Nora: 
>She does mock his DADA knowledge... :)

Betsy:
Not sure of your point here.  Snape is still the *Potions* Master, 
right?
 
>>Nora:
<snip>
>Saying that Harry learned it because Snape was teaching it seems a 
profoundly facile reading of the situation to me, pegging off 
generally ill intent into the realm of "But he learned something, 
right?"<

Betsy:
I was being brief, Snape's teaching style not being the point of the 
post.  If you want a longer discussion on my views on Snape's 
teaching style, you can look at message 126800 where I go into a bit 
more detail. (Out of curiosity, how do *you* think Harry learned 
potions?)  

>>Betsy:
<snip> 
>Though I still think Harry didn't learn occlumency because Harry 
didn't want to learn occlumency.  I doubt Lupin would have fared much 
better.<

>>Nora: 
>I think Lupin would have fared much better for the simple reason 
that Harry would trust him, as Harry has far more reason to trust 
him.<
<snip>

Betsy:
I'm not sure how trust would overcome curiosity.  Harry *wanted* to 
see what was in the DoM.  He may have gone through the motions with a 
little less resentment, but he would have still welcomed the 
dreams.    

>>Nora: 
>Actually, the general diagnosis stands whether it's the Order of  
Merlin or Sirius Black.  It's the amazingly violent reaction to 
the 'disappointment' that makes one wonder.<
<snip>

Betsy:
See, this is where I get lost.  As far as Snape is concerned someone 
who tried to kill him, someone he doesn't believe has changed, has 
escaped, with the help of a Hogwart's golden boy.  Just like last 
time.  I can't see that his reaction was all that out of line.  And 
it's exactly this kind of thinking, "Snape's got a personality 
disorder, he wasn't *really* bothered by Black or Potter," that I was 
worried SSSusan's post would generate.

>>Nora:
<snip> 
>It's the nature of the problems that he has, and the ways that they 
manifest themselves, that line up so neatly with aspects of NPD.
>Prominent amongst these are things thematically emphasized with 
Snape: his inability or unwillingness to rethink positions when faced 
with new evidence...<

Betsy:
Erm... So we'll just ignore that whole switching sides against his 
friends and his upbringing thing, then?

>>Nora:
>...his general arrogance and self-confidence in his own opinions...<

Betsy:
And I see we're also ignoring the whole Occlumency thing where Snape 
took on a task he detested soley because Dumbledore requested he do 
it.  And the many times he put his personal feelings aside to make 
sure Harry was safe, from PS/SS to OotP.

>>Nora:
>...and the tendency to think that it's all about him (see all of 
PoA, for instance).<

Betsy:
Not sure I saw that tendency throughout PoA (or in any of the books 
for that matter).  I *did* see Snape constantly questioning 
Dumbledore's trust in Lupin.  Something Snape was quite right about, 
as it turns out.  

>>Nora: 
>Of course, a lot of this could prove out, or could not.  It strikes 
me as a fairly weak explanation to just go "Oh, personal history" and 
not look very carefully at how and why that personal history is being 
processed, and the particular reactions made.<

Betsy:
Good thing I didn't just go, "Oh, personal history," huh?  Kinda like 
just going, "Oh, personality disorder."  A tad over-simplistic, yes?

Betsy, not sure why her response generated such personal attacks, but 
rolling with the punches.