Lucious, Severus, and Narcissistic PD (long response)

[naamagatus]

No: HPFGUIDX 127487


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "cubfanbudwoman" 
<susiequsie23 at s...> wrote:
> 
<snip>  
> > 4. Requires excessive admiration --> Not sure about this.  I 
don't  see him acting "chummy" with Draco, just not as contemptable 
toward him as Harry.  Not sure what impact excessive admiration would 
have  on Severus.  He does seem to be loyal to DD, but I would think 
this is because he feels loyalty toward DD and not because DD 
excessively admires him. 
> 
> SSSusan:  I guess I see requiring admiration as different from 
> wanting chumminess from students.  I have seen it more along the 
> lines of his being annoyed by "dunderheads" who don't show adequate 
> appreciation of him or of what he is able to teach them.  I see it 
> also as his being loyal to DD in part because DD has been 
> *appreciative* of Snape, as someone who has acknowledged his 
> importance, which I believe he craved.

> > 5. Has a sense of entitlement --> He expects to be treated with 
> > respect by the students because he is a professor.  I don't see 
> > this as entitlement.  I would think Minerva would not act to 
kindly  if students treated her with disrespect.  The difference is 
she is  seen as a warmer and more likeable person, even though just 
as  strict as Severus.  
> 
> SSSusan:
> I absolutely do see this.  Snape DEMANDS to be referred to by his 
> title.  McGonagall might correct a student who didn't use the 
title, 
> but would she do it with as much venom?  Would she see it as a 
> personal affront or as merely an oversight?  I think Snape is very 
> hung up on respect.  


Yes, Snape is very hung up on respect - but is not hung up at all on 
admiration, IMO. 
Not having the books here, I can't check the text, but I do remember 
Snape overhearing Harry and Ron bad-mouthing him, and he doesn't 
care - he seems amused, if anything. I also agree that while pleased 
with Draco's flattery, he doesn't seek it. 
His economy of self doesn't seem to depend on admiration (this is a 
definition of "admiration" from dictionary.com: "a feeling of 
delighted approval and liking"; how unlike Snape does that sound?). 
Admiration is about qualities; respect is about position and status. 
As adults, we don't need admiration (although we enjoy it when we get 
it) - but we all demand, to some degree, respect. As a need, 
admiration belongs to childhood, respect to adulthood.
If you look at the Snape-goes-ballistic incidents, they are much 
better understood as hurt pride/dignity (i.e., being disrespected) 
than hurt ego (not receiving admiration). 

I think this is a major point against the narcissistic Snape theory. 
The narcissistic self got "stuck", so to speak, in the admiration 
stage. Snape is healthier than that - his need for respect is 
exaggerated and obviously a result of insecurities, but still much 
closer to normal adult needs than a narcissist. 

>  
> > 6. In interpersonally exploitative --> I have not read anything 
>in canon that would support this.
> 
> SSSusan:  Me either.  It would be total speculation.  OTOH, I think 
> it *might* be possible to argue that anyone willing to be a Death 
> Eater might have this attribute?

I don't agree with your last speculation. The narcissist 
exploitativeness arises from a deep lack of an authentic response to 
other human beings as specific persons. Think of Lockhart and 
Voldemort. Lockhart's recognition of other people's existence in 
themselves and their speficity is extremely shallow; emotionally, for 
him, people are fans or potential fans. Voldemort is the same - only 
for him people are abject followers (or not) - he needs to see his 
reflection as the dark and terrible, most powerful dark wizard in 
their eyes. 
Snape, on the other hand, responds to people authentically, 
emotionally (passionately, rather) and specifically - of course, he's 
all twisted and bitter and full of rage - but he doesn't have that 
unique disconnect that (I believe) characterises the narcissist.


Naama, on the not-NPD side