Harry Potter and Ender's Game

[phoenixgod2000]

No: HPFGUIDX 128104


This post contains spoilers for the novels Enders Game and Enders 
Shadow.

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:
> 
> Betsy:
> A breakdown of the characters in the Harry Potter books and their 
> equivilent from the book "Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card.  A 
task 
> inspired by some not-quite-recent comments by Phoenixgod (yup, 
this 
> is all his fault <g>) 

phoenixgod2000: Man, I hate it when I get blamed for stuff :)

> [As a public service note there will be some spoilers for Ender's 
> Game.  Not so much for Ender's Shadow and the books of that 
> particular story line -- but I've read them so my understanding of 
> the Ender's Game characters have been duly colored.]

Colored sadly. All of the novels past 'Game made me like EG less. I 
wonder what the hell happened to OSC.
 
> Harry Potter = Ender Wiggin
> No brainer this one.  Both boys are the sole hope of their kind, 
> have good (in Ender's case, beyond excellent) leadership skills, 
and 
> both have been likened to Christ by various readers.  All Harry 
> lacks is Ender's ruthless need to thoroughly dominate every 
conflict 
> he finds himself in, and of course intense military training. 

Obviously, I agree with the comparison. One thing I think that is 
interesting is how different the two approaches are that the authors 
take. HP is very much a story about children acting like children. 
the author goes out of her way to show children in all of their 
greatness and foibles. Harry's power isn't something that will 
probably come from training, but from an intrinsic quality that he 
has and Voldemort has excised from himself.  Ender on the other hand 
is almost solely a product of training and despite the fact we meet 
him at a very young age is never really a child and never really 
acts like one.
 
> Hermione Granger = Peter Wiggin
> A bit more controversial.  Hermione *does* have a tendency to fall 
> to pieces while in the midst of a crises (the Devil's Snare in 
PS/SS 
> and the Centaurs in OotP), but she's got decent skills at figuring 
> out how to sway public opinion and undermine tyrannical powerheads 
> (OotP). 

I would have compared her to Valentine or Petra. Valentine was also 
incredibly soft hearted--not quite up to Hermione, but who is?  
Petra because she is one of Enders strongest supporters towards the 
end and helps to train him when he first gets to battle school, in a 
way that is similar to the way Hermione helps Harry with a couple of 
pieces of difficult magic, particularly the summoning charm.

I would say that the character most like Peter Wiggins is Tom Riddle 
himself. The whole hiding of his identity, animal torture thing, 
tremendous gifts misspent, and well liked political philosophy 
screams Peter to me.

> Ron Weasley = Mr. and Mrs. Wiggin and/or the people of Earth
> Okay, Ron was hard to figure out (partially because I suspect his 
> story will have some cool twists in the upcoming books) but at 
this 
> moment he's more of a symbol of what's good in the WW.  He and his 
> family are living proof that the fight against Voldemort is worth 
> waging.

Ron doesn't really have an analogue in EG, but yours works.  I also 
see some Dink in him.
 
> Dumbledore = Colonel Graff
> Both men recognize that their respective boy is the only hope to 
> defeating a seemingly undefeatable enemy.  Both dislike placing 
such 
> a large burden on such young shoulders, and both have a father-
like 
> love for their young protege.  However, Graff is quite willing to 
> put his sentiment aside and push Ender into becoming the deadliest 
> weapon he can form, even if he risks Ender's life to do so.  
> Dumbledore, as shown in OotP, is not quite as ruthless, to Harry's 
> detriment it could be argued.

Honestly, if DD showed as much angst about what he does to Harry as 
Graff does for Ender, I would like him more. I also agree that DD 
isn't quite as ruthless as he needs to be in order to get Harry up 
to snuff. I think Harry might even respect Graff's training methods 
more than the sort of half-assed training DD is providing him. Graff 
never lies to Ender about what he wants him to accomplish in an 
effort to give him a life he can't really have anyway. Both Ender 
and Harry are seperated from their peers long before they know their 
destiny. Graff is as tough as I think DD should have been. And I 
think Harry would appreciate his honestly and not being treated as 
quite the child like he is by DD and the Order.
 
 
> Professor Snape = Mazer Rackham 
> Alright, I know the Snape haters (or should I say, dislikers?) are 
> groaning aloud, but hear me out. 

I actually did groan out loud when I read that, you know :)  The 
only thing Snape and Rackham have in common is that Snape should be 
shot into a wide elipical orbit around earth too.

The first thing Mazer does as 
> Ender's teacher is beat the crap out of him and verbally abuse 
him.  
> Of course there was no personal animosity in either action, so 
Ender 
> quickly got over his anger and soaked up all he could from Mazer, 
> something I think everyone agrees would be a good thing for Harry 
to 
> do with Snape (the disagreements seem to arise over the reason for 
> the animosity between Snape and Harry). 

I don't think there is much for Harry to learn from Snape except how 
not to live his life. Snape isn't a war hero like Mazer, he's a 
nearly worthless war criminal who shouldn't be allowed near children 
for any reason.

Have I mentioned lately that I hate Snape?

I think the person most closely resembling Rackham in the novels is 
Mad-Eye Moody, Fake!Moody to be exact.  He has the same harsh, 
uncomprosing teaching style that Mazer has and knows the enemy in 
the same way. And when he wasn't trying to kill Harry, he was one of 
his best teachers. just like Mazer.  
 
> Neville Longbottom = Bean
> So Bean is a character we learn tons more about in Ender's Shadow, 
> but even just sticking to what we see in Ender's Game, there are 
> similarities. <snip> Both boys are seen as runners up to the 
> chosen ones; both seem to be missing an essential *something* to 
> becoming the One.  And yet, both provide the chosen one with much 
> needed support.  (We see this with Neville at the end of OotP, and 
> I'll admit to projecting that Neville will be of some importance 
in 
> the final two books.)

I agree with you totally, except for I hope that the victory against 
Voldemort is more solely Harry's. I think Enders Shadow had Bean 
steal too much of Ender's thunder. I personally think Neville is 
going to be the one to get Bellatrix Lestrange and thats good enough 
for me.  
 
> Draco Malfoy = Bonzo or Dink or Petra
> Depends on which way young Malfoy goes.  If he continues down the 
> road of future Death Eater, then he's like Bonzo, a potentially 
> deadly enemy who'll turn out to be little match for Harry.  If he 
> turns away from the dark side (fingers crossed) then I imagine 
he'll 
> be like Dink, a good but somewhat reluctant leader, more 
comfortable 
> snarkily critiquing the powers that be than jumping whole 
heartedly 
> on board.  

I agree with you that he, if redeemed would probably end up like 
Dink, but I hold very little interest in his possible redemption so 
Bonzo he will forever be (at least in my head).
 
> The Dursleys (mostly Vernon and Dudley) = Stilson
> Petty bullies who make the early part of Harry's and Ender's life 
a 
> not very pleasant experience.  Both seek out the heroes to bully 
> because they're "different" from the accepted norm.  Both are, in 
> actuality, no match for the heroes.  Something Stilson learned 
> faster and with more finality than either Dudley or Vernon. 

Yeah, I doubt Rowling would go as far as Orson Scott Card did in 
Ender's Game. But Dudley meeting the Dementors *was* pretty 
satisfying so I am content.

>Betsy, who strongly suspects this is the first not-in-response-to-
> another-posting she's posted to this list

I too have seen the similarities in the two series. I think the 
ultimate difference between the two is this. HP is a story about an 
ordinary boy in extraordinary circumstances. Rowling goes out of her 
way to play up his ordinary-ness (even in the face of Harry's 
talents) while Orson Scott Card revels in Ender's specialness. In a 
way the flaws of the two series are the exact opposite of each 
other. Hp has great characterization and (in general) character 
development as the charactrs go from children for adults. but she 
sacrifices some logic, plotting, internal consistancy (IMO). Its a 
story about the journey, not the destination.  Enders Game is very 
much a story about the destination. Every second of the story is 
devoted to the overall goal of training and beating the enemy of 
humanity. The children of the battle school are in a way minature 
adults from the beginning. No time is wasted on awkward adolesence 
life and I think the characters suffer a bit from the lack.  Many of 
the characters in 'Game lack the humanity and emotional resonace 
that Rowling's characters do. But Orson's plotting, logic, and 
internal consistancy is second to none, but the sacrifice is much of 
the children's innocence and personal development. There is no 
Ender's Game equivelant to Neville's personal journey for example.

Betsy, in one of my HP fan fics, I got the plot by asking myself a 
very simple question: WWED (What Would Ender Do)?  I thought your 
post was great even if I disagree with some of it.

phoenixgod2000, who has a friendly piece of advice for everyone 
thinking about reading the books from our posts. Only read Enders 
Game! the rest of the series is terrible. Trust me. I have never 
regret reading a book before I read Ender's shadow.