Harry Potter and Ender's Game

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 128151


>>Betsy: 
>Hermione Granger = Peter Wiggin<

>>Phoenixgod:
>I would say that the character most like Peter Wiggins is Tom 
Riddle himself. The whole hiding of his identity, animal torture 
thing, tremendous gifts misspent, and well liked political 
philosophy screams Peter to me.<

>>Angela:
>Peter? Really? I agree both Peter and Hermione have enough 
intelligence and political savvy to undermine tyrannical powerheads, 
but that's where I see the similarities ending. As you point out, 
Hermione may not be winning any popurlarity contests with her over-
the-top desire to be right and to do right...
<snip>
>If anything, I'd compare Peter to Voldemort. Both are adept at 
drawing people to their cause through charisma and/or 
manipulation...<
<snip>

Betsy:
I don't want to get into a huge discussion about Peter Wiggin (not 
the place, obviously) -- but here's my view on Voldemort.  Voldemort 
is evil, a true sociopath of Hitchcock-ian levels.  If Voldemort 
gets his way he will destroy not only the muggle world but the 
Wizarding World as well.  (I suspect that old Voldie was none too 
pleased with his mother, either.  How could he hold her in anything 
but contempt? A witch of her bloodlines consorting with a muggle, 
and getting herself in such a bad state of dependence on that muggle 
she dies when he deserts her.  No, I'm quite sure Voldemore would be 
well pleased to see the WW burn.)  Peter, for all his many faults, 
saves his world from a bloody war and leaves it in a state of 
strong, healthy stability (all from Ender's Game).  

Also, Voldemort's followers have an unhealthy... I'll say loyalty, 
because love don't come in it, for the man.  Bellatrix is a prime 
example, but take a look at Peter Pettigrew too.  That scene in the 
graveyard in GoF, after Pettigrew has already CHOPPED OFF HIS OWN 
HAND(!!!) for the man was creepy to begin with.  Then there's the 
added bonus of Voldemort telling Pettigrew to hold up his arm, and 
Pettigrew's all thankful for the expected healing, and Voldemort's 
all, "No, you chump, your *other* arm."  And everyone, including 
Pettigrew, thinks he's planning on cutting off the other hand, and 
Pettigrew, LIFTS HIS ARM UP ANYWAY (!!??!!), and if that don't drive 
home the intensity in Voldemort's followers, I don't know what 
would.  Peter Wiggin don't come close.  Not in Ender's Game, and 
certainly not in the Shadow series (for want of a better name).

Hermione, on the other hand....  Of course I don't think the girl is 
bent on world domination (though she does seem quite interested in 
making over the current WW).  But she has a definite streak of 
ruthlessness none of the other Hogwarts students have shown to 
possess.  It was first displayed in PS/SS when she left Neville in a 
*full* body bind, lying on the Gryffindor common room floor, while a 
dark wizard roamed the halls (not even Draco went that far), and 
also reared it's head during OotP when she lead Umbridge to the 
Centaurs.  Hermione is not stupid.  Part of her *had* to know she 
was putting Umbridge's life on the line.  One could also argue that 
her trick with the House Elves in OotP, hiding clothing about the 
room, speaks to a certain ruthless disregard of other beings' 
thoughts and desires. (Valentine would *never* show such a lack of 
empathy.)  No, Hermione isn't nearly the shade of gray Peter Wiggin 
is, but she ain't no shining beacon of white either.

>>Angela:
>Ron could also be compared to Alai, if only because Alai was 
Ender's first friend, Ron was Harry's first friend.<

Betsy:
Alai could also link to Luna Lovegood - gives the hero an extra 
special, one could argue spiritual boost when the hero is at his 
lowest.

>>Phoenixgod: 
>Honestly, if DD showed as much angst about what he does to Harry as 
Graff does for Ender, I would like him more.<

Betsy:
I think that while Graff's angst comes through in his weight gain 
and his self-deprecating humor, Dumbledore's comes through in his 
unwillingness to pull Harry into the war.  Of course, Graff has been 
in the position of turning highly gifted children into weapons for 
years before Ender comes on the scene.  Dumbledore is brand new to 
the position.  I think the lack of experience comes out.  Honestly, 
I think Dumbledore has a harder time of it.  He's the only one, 
really, who knows Harry's importance to the war effort.  He's faced 
with some highly difficult decisions he has to make in a tiny amount 
of time if he's to prevent doom from raining down, and he's been 
*forced* into the position of training Harry to take down a wizard 
Dumbledore probably feels he should face himself.  Graff, on the 
other hand, had a philosophy and methodology already in place, and a 
support staff.  No contest really, in my mind.

>>Phoenixgod:
>I also agree that DD isn't quite as ruthless as he needs to be in 
order to get Harry up to snuff.
<snip>
>Graff is as tough as I think DD should have been. And I think Harry 
would appreciate his honestly and not being treated as quite the 
child like he is by DD and the Order.<

Betsy:
It lends a certain strength to the argument that maybe a weapon 
would prefer to be treated like a weapon. (Of course Ender has a 
nervous breakdown mid-novel so there's that.) Seriously, I think 
that was Dumbledore's big mistake -- the one he fully admits to.  He 
cannot see past the child Harry to see the strong wizard within.  
(Maybe Snape is one of the few who actually do? I admit, I threw 
that in to raise ire. I'm that kind of bad. <eg>)  I fully expect 
things to change in HBP (an expectation boosted by various covers) 
and Dumbledore to start treating Harry like the strong wizard Harry 
can be.

>>Betsy:
>Professor Snape = Mazer Rackham<

>>Phoenixgod:
<snip> 
>The only thing Snape and Rackham have in common is that Snape 
should be shot into a wide elipical orbit around earth too.<

Betsy:
But where would that leave the Order?  Snape is one of its strongest 
members.

>>Phoenixgod:
Snape isn't a war hero like Mazer, he's a nearly worthless war 
criminal who shouldn't be allowed near children for any reason.<

Betsy:
Ah.  I see our differences over Snape are near insurmountable. (I 
could say I was surprised but... <g>)  I actually think Snape *is* a 
war-hero (not a celebrated one because - spy) and a good teacher.  I 
think he's one of Dumbledore's, and therefore the Order's, 
staunchest allies, and if Snape was taken out the Order would suffer 
a severe blow.  All my opinion of course.

>>Phoenixgod: 
>I think the person most closely resembling Rackham in the novels is 
Mad-Eye Moody, Fake!Moody to be exact.  He has the same harsh, 
uncomprosing teaching style that Mazer has and knows the enemy in 
the same way. And when he wasn't trying to kill Harry, he was one of 
his best teachers. just like Mazer.<

Betsy:
Except of course Fake!Moody was *not* trying to help Harry win.  And 
he didn't share any of his knowledge of the enemy with anyone (until 
drugged).  And I wouldn't call his teaching style uncompromising.  
He was as gentle as Lupin in many ways.  And of course he reached a 
level of teacher to student cruelty not matched until Umbridge 
pulled out her blood quill.  And rather than leaving Harry in a 
position of strength and stability, Fake!Moody was probably directly 
responsible for some of Harry's paranoia and capslock-ing in OotP.  
Fake!Moody was cool like a child molester is fun: the fact that the 
kids loved him was all part of his sick trap.  

>>Betsy:  
>Neville Longbottom = Bean<

>>Angela:
>Agreed, to a certain extent. It's true that both are runners-up to 
the chosen one (Ender and Harry). But Bean was an intellectual equal 
to Ender, something Ender may or may not have realized. I don't see 
Neville, at this point, being at the same level talent-wise as 
Harry. However, as Betsy points out, this may change in future 
books.<

>>Phoenixgod:
>I agree with you totally, except for I hope that the victory 
against Voldemort is more solely Harry's.<

Betsy:
Just going by Ender's Game alone, I think Bean provided more 
background and moral support than anything else, especially with 
his, "the enemy's gate is *down*" cry at the final battle.  Just as 
Neville, merely by sticking by Harry's side and refusing to back 
down in the battle at the DoM helped keep Harry going, I think.  I 
don't think Neville will steal any of Harry's thunder (something I 
didn't honestly see the Shadow books doing with Ender, myself) but I 
think he may provide that extra bit of support, even if it's just in 
the form of a rallying cry. (And don't you think Harry needs a 
special rallying cry of his own? This - if nothing else - screams 
out for a redeemed Draco <g>)  

Betsy, who thinks Ender's Game is a classic piece of literature that 
should be on everyone's bookshelf, and that the Shadow series is a 
fun and exciting read that pales in comparison to the original, but 
is well worth the read, if only for Bean.