Foreshadowing? Two Places to Hide Horcruxes

[hermionegallo]

No: HPFGUIDX 135889


Jen:
It seems like Dumbledore is saying LV's appearance 
> changed due to his quest for immortality which we now know is the 
> Horcruxes. So, we first see a glint of his red eyes when he's 
> surveying the treasures at Hepzibah's house. To me that would mean 
> he's already learned how to make Horcruxes, and there's some 
> evidence that the diary and ring are already hidden. But you could 
> also argue it was simply the murders subtly changing his appearance 
> and that the Horcrux making took place during the next ten years. 
> Because we do see a very drastic change in LV's appearance when he 
> requests the job at Hogwarts.

hg:
Without including it in my original sequence of events (134655) I was 
using his physical changes as evidence that he had already made 
horcruxes.  We know he made the diary when he was 16.  He turned 17 
on Dec 31, 1943 or Jan 1, 1944.  The basilisk killed Myrtle June 13, 
1943.  In the Slughorn scene, he's wearing the ring and his eyes are 
normal -- and he's a prefect, not head boy.  This places the Slughorn 
scene between Sept 1, 1943 and Tom's 17th birthday.  (By the way, 
note the crystallized pineapple, in a box tied w/ a ribbon:  Tom 
didn't have any money, but he gave it to Slughorn as a gift.  So the 
scene doesn't necessarily have to be after the mid-October Hogsmeade 
visit.  Tom knows about the passage to Honeydukes: when Harry et al 
are in Honeydukes they bump into Slughorn buying crystallized 
pineapple.)
I think he most definitely had divided his soul at least twice in 
those 4 months at the end of 1943.  The diary isn't wearing the ring 
and the diary is stated about 10,000 times to be 16 year old Tom.  In 
Hepzibah's house, his hair is longer, he has a sunken appearance, and 
there's the matter of the glowing red eyes, all confirming even more 
he'd already done it.
When he shows up in Dumbledore's office (1970?) he has changed more 
again, but he doesn't look as bad as he does when he comes out of the 
cauldron "his old self," as he says.  I think he had made 4 or 5 when 
he went to Dumbledore's office, and the remaining 2 or 1 were made 
before/when baby Harry blew him up.

> > hg:
> > Oh, yes, we were referring to the same thing, then.  But the
> > special services award is a plaque.
> 
> Jen: I'm thoroughly confused now, and had to back-up and research 
> where the TR cup came from. Seems like people are suspecting the 
cup 
> on JKR's website is a clue? That Tom won a cup as well as the 
> plaque, and people suspect he traded the original cup for the 
> Hufflepuff cup? Still, I'd rather have it in the books than just on 
> the website.

hg:
Maybe what other people are considering is his Award for Magical 
Merit, which I believe he received in his 7th year, and I'd consider 
it based on the evidence that Ron polished that plaque repeatedly and 
is still walking and talking.  The Special Services Award to the 
school is definitely a plaque.

Jen:
> Is it reasonable he learned to make the Horcruxes immediately after 
> that conversation with Slughorn? I'm starting to think not. Where 
> would he find out while still at Hogwarts? Did he learn everything 
> he needed to know that summer right after the murders? If so, it 
> must not be terribly complex. Or he had a mentor. 

hg:
If he can get out into Hogsmeade any time he wants, he certainly has 
a path to outside information, and we know the info he wanted on how 
to make a Horcrux wasn't available inside Hogwarts.


> Jen: I tend to take DD's words at face value here, that he believes 
> Riddle wanted the job at Hogwarts to find a treasure from one of 
the 
> other founders (chap. 23 p. 505, US). But I don't think it would be 
> something Riddle stole as a student and hid at Hogwarts (although I 
> guess the COS would make an *excellent* hiding place since no one 
> else can open it!). More likely he wanted to search the castle for 
a new item and was turned away.

hg:
I wonder if he found something satisfactory that made him quit 
asking, then.  I don't know about Ravenclaw, but after reviewing some 
JK interviews yesterday, I'm wondering if Harry is a descendant of 
Godric Griffindor, through James?  It would explain why Lily 
didn't "have to die," and might provide a layer of motive for 
Voldemort to want to kill Harry.  I'm torn on this, because I've also 
been wondering if Dumbledore is related to GG, and I don't think it 
can be both Dumbledore and Harry related to GG.
Might I add that the eyes are the window to the soul?  A little 
nagging thought, just for you, Jen.
hg.