Voldemort's transformation (Was: Foreshadowing? Two Places to Hide Horcruxes

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 136264

> Carol responds:
> I agree with you that Tom Riddle could not have created the
> Horcruxes (other than the diary, which is not a true Horcrux in
> that it's easily destroyed, requires interaction with another
> person, and was originally intended for another purpose). The fact
> that Diary!Tom isn't wearing the ring suggest to me *not* that
> he's already created the ring Horcrux but that he hasn't yet
> killed his family. 
 
Jen: That's a good point about the ring. After looking over the 
timeline, I think you're right. Tom opened the COS in his fifth 
year, and murdered his family the summer of the 'sixteenth' year, 
after his sixth year of school. Someone pointed out Riddle could 
have preserved his 16-year old self in the diary prior to the 
process of the Horcrux. So then the diary and ring Horcruxes could 
have been made after the Riddle murders (see below why I don't think 
it was Myrtle). It doesn't seem likely he made the diary into a 
Horcrux before his talk with Slughorn. He obviously doesn't know 
much about them at that point.
 
Carol:
> The only murder he's committed at this time is Moaning Myrtle, who
> was killed on his direction by the basilisk, which is as much his
> agent as his weapon.
 
Jen: Myrtle was a 'negligent homicide' or something similar in my 
book, sort of a wrong place, wrong time murder. But the important 
thing is whether Tom believes she was murdered by his hand (or on 
his command), and if so, was she was significant enough to use for 
one of his precious Horcruxes? My thought is no. Riddle doesn't 
mention her death to Harry in the COS, he doesn't take credit for 
the murder. Given his history of linking significant murders to 
trophy objects, I'm leaning toward the murder of his grandfather for 
the diary, noting the end of the Riddle line. 
 
 >Carol:
> After framing Hagrid and creating the diary as a kind of amateur
> pseudo-Horcrux, he leaves Hogwarts for the summer, kills his father
> and grandparents, and comes back with the object that he intends to
> make into his first real Horcrux, the ring. 

Jen: The way Riddle thinks, it's likely he formed both the ring and 
diary Horcruxes after the deaths of his father and grandfather, the 
only true blood Riddles left. Since his father is most significant, 
and the ring is a direct link to the Slytherin line, this murder 
formed the ring Horcrux. His grandfather was used for the diary, a 
testament to what Riddle considers his true heritage, Heir of 
Slytherin. His grandmother was a drive-by shooting I'm afraid, and 
since not a blood Riddle, not significant enough for a Horcrux.

Carol:
> We don't see Tom during his seventh year at Hogwarts, but it could
> be that he used the summer between his sixth and seventh years to
> visit Grindelwald (surely this is the reason Grindelwald has been
> mentioned in the earlier books?) and create his first real Horcrux.

Jen: Being picky about the timeline here. At the Slug Club meeting 
Tom asks if Merrythought is retiring because he hopes to get the 
DADA job. If it's his sixth year, they would hire someone else 
before he finished Hogwarts. So I think this meeting was in his 
seventh year.

That puts a crunch on how much time he had to meet with Grindelwald, 
since he graduated in 1945, and Grindelwald was defeated the same 
year. 

But I think you, Cindy and Merrylinks are all right that this *must* 
be what's significant about Grindelwald. Even if the two didn't ever 
meet directly, it's pretty clear GW was able to form at least one 
Horcrux before being defeated by Dumbledore. I think that's who DD 
refers to when he said 'no wizard has ever done more than tear his 
woul in two' (chap. 23. p. 500) *and* why he adamantly refuses for 
Horcrux information to be available at Hogwarts. Also, it explains 
how Dumbledore knew to suspect Voldemort of making Horcruxes, 
because he's seen it happen before.


Carol:
> When we next see him ten years later, he is twenty-eight and ought
> to look as he did when he visited Hepzibah Smith. Instead,
> although still recognizable to his former Slytherin followers
> (Theo Nott's father among them) and to Dumbledore, his features
> are blurred, his skin is waxy, and his eyes and nose are starting
> to resemble those we will see in the resurrected Voldemort in GoF. 
> He is about halfway there, having created the cup and locket
> Horcruxes. Which murders he used to create them we don't know, but
> he would probably consider his grandparents' deaths more 
> significant than Hepzibah Smith's. 

Jen: I'm thinking he used the cup for Hepzibah because she was 
distantly related to Hufflepuff, similar to his distant relationship 
to Slytherin. It's also punishment for 'stealing' the locket that 
was sold to Burke for just a pittance. Now the locket....that has to 
be a very significant murder. The locket his mom wore, with the 
Slytherin seal. Either we haven't heard about this murder or we've 
had hints and don't know it yet.

Jen, thinking Merrythought is a really peachy name for a DADA 
professor.