Voldemort's transformation

[hermionegallo]

No: HPFGUIDX 136339

Carol:
> ...the diary, which is not a true Horcrux in that it's easily
> destroyed, requires interaction with another person, and was
> originally intended for another purpose... 

hg:
The diary is a true Horcrux.  It's also akin to a Pensieve.  Harry's 
travels into and out of the diary are identical to his travels in and 
out of the Pensieve.  If it were merely a record of Tom's discovery 
of the Chamber and proof of his being the Heir of Slytherin, it 
wouldn't have been able to interact with Ginny or Harry, to start 
putting a little of his soul into her.  It's usefulness as a weapon 
relied on it's ability to interact with the one who had it; he'd be 
able to instruct or possess that individual (depending on if he/she 
was willing or not) and eventually take that person's life and make 
himself anew.  I think that aspect makes it ironically dangerous to 
Voldemort; another one of himself running around would want what he 
also wants -- to be the only him.

> - Jen wrote: 
It seems like Dumbledore is saying LV's appearance 
changed due to his quest for immortality which we now know is the 
Horcruxes. 

hg:
We all seem to be in agreement about this.  However, I'll add that I 
believe his changes conclusively correspond with the Horcruxes: the 
more Horcruxes, the less he looks like Tom Riddle.  The red eyes were 
our first indicator.

Jen:
So, we first see a glint of his red eyes when he's 
> > surveying the treasures at Hepzibah's house. 

hg:
No, the first time was in the Chamber of Secrets.  ("There was an odd 
red gleam in his hungry eyes now." p 313, Amer.)  This is Diary Tom, 
which indicates to me that the Tom who made the diary had indeed made 
a Horcrux.  At Hepzibah Smith's house, where he's about 23-25 (he 
worked at Borgin and Burke's about 5 years), there's no mistaking the 
red gleam, and his hair is longer and his face has a sunken look to 
it.  And Jen points out his appearance has changed more drastically 
in Dumbledore's office (1970?  I think Dumbledore became headmaster 
immediately before Lupin entered Hogwarts as a student = 1970).  
Finally, the Voldemort who steps out of the cauldron in GoF is more 
drastic than Dumbledore's office Voldemort.

Carol:
The fact that Diary!Tom
> isn't wearing the ring suggests to me *not* that he's already 
created
> the ring Horcrux but that he hasn't yet killed his family. The only
> murder he's committed at this time is Moaning Myrtle, who was killed
> on his direction by the basilisk, which is as much his agent as his
> weapon.

hg:
If it weren't for the "odd red gleam," we could speculate that his 
inquiry to Slughorn wasn't how to make a Horcrux but rather how to 
make MULTIPLE Horcruxes; and that he made the diary and then later 
figured out how to make more (as well as allowing for the Riddles' 
deaths to be "whenever.").  But the odd red gleam in CoS as well as 
evidence from the Slughorn scene (wherein Tom's wearing the ring and 
he's asking how do you make a Horcrux) says to me, at least, that he 
was definitely asking how to do it, and shortly thereafter made 
several.  I think the ring came first: Dumbledore says, "It seems 
that once Voldemort had succeeded in sealing a piece of his soul 
inside it (the ring), he did not want to wear it anymore." (504, HBP, 
Amer.)  This would address why Diary Tom isn't wearing it and why he 
already has the odd red gleam.

I think he made, in order: the ring, then the diary; then #3; then 
the locket, possibly the cup (not convinced he used it at all).  He 
would have made 4 or 5 by the time he went to Dumbledore's office 
(tentatively dated at 1970) and would have made the last two or one 
by/at Godric's Hollow, 1981.

Jen:
> > Is it reasonable he learned to make the Horcruxes immediately 
after that conversation with Slughorn? I'm starting to think not. 
Where would he find out while still at Hogwarts? Did he learn 
everything he needed to know that summer right after the murders? If 
so, it must not be terribly complex. Or he had a mentor. 

AND Jen: 
Being picky about the timeline here. At the Slug Club meeting
Tom asks if Merrythought is retiring because he hopes to get the
DADA job. If it's his sixth year, they would hire someone else
before he finished Hogwarts. So I think this meeting was in his
seventh year.


hg:
He had to, of necessity, have outside information.  The library was 
probably already stripped of that info (probably thanks to 
Dumbledore), if he had to resort to asking Slughorn.  I think I have 
proof that he knew how to get out of Hogwarts -- the crystallized 
pineapple he routinely gives to Slughorn.  If he'd been scouring the 
castle looking for the Chamber for five years, he certainly could 
have found the passage to Honeydukes, and so to Hogsmeade.  He 
wouldn't have learned to Apparate yet, not until January 1944, so the 
info would have been found in Hogsmeade.  (I'm in agreement with 
poster Carol that it's possible he got his information from 
Grindelwald.)  And it HAS to be almost immediately after the 
conversation with Slughorn, because it was 1943, beginning of his 6th 
year (Slughorn on p. 496, HBP, Amer.: "Look sharp, Tom, you don't 
want to be caught out of bed out of hours, and you a prefect..." not 
Head Boy), before his birthday New Year's Eve/Day (diary is stated to 
be 16).  The question about Merrythought cannot, therefore, indicate 
seventh year.

Jen, to Carol:
But I think you, Cindy and Merrylinks are all right that this *must*
be what's significant about Grindelwald. Even if the two didn't ever
meet directly, it's pretty clear GW was able to form at least one
Horcrux before being defeated by Dumbledore. I think that's who DD
refers to when he said 'no wizard has ever done more than tear his
soul in two' (chap. 23. p. 500) *and* why he adamantly refuses for
Horcrux information to be available at Hogwarts. Also, it explains
how Dumbledore knew to suspect Voldemort of making Horcruxes,
because he's seen it happen before.

hg responding:
Brilliant.  Thanks for more food for thought.
hg.