SHIP: Remus/Tonks, and RL experiences

Thu Aug 4 11:48:46 UTC 2005

No: HPFGUIDX 136383

Lissa wrote:
"Like Del, I've done the begging thing.  More than once.  And y'know
what?  It didn't work.  At all.  In fact, quite the opposite.  Any
respect the guy might have had for me went right out the window."

Del replies:
No offense meant, but I am pretty sure we are not talking about the
same thing *at all*.

I don't see Tonks as begging. I see her as *pleading*. She's not
begging Lupin to tear down a natural wall that is between them, she's
pleading with him to stop erecting artificial ones. She's pleading
with him to stop hurting both of them *for no reason*. Lupin is having
a pity party with himself, hurting both himself and Tonks *under false
pretences*. He loves Tonks, he knows it, he knows she knows it, and
yet he keeps giving stupid reasons why they shouldn't be together. And
Tonks is pleading with him to stop doing that.

If anyone is begging, it's Lupin. His arguments are ridiculous: he's
too old, too poor, too dangerous, Tonks deserves someone young and
whole. Those are no arguments to oppose to *love*, and they
infantilise Tonks, making her look like she doesn't know what's good
for her. It's Lupin who is grasping at straws, not Tonks. Tonks is
basically telling Lupin "I love you, you love me, so *please* stop
playing that ridiculous game, it *hurts*", and Lupin is answering "I
don't wanna leave my pity party, go away".

Lissa wrote:
"especially since we have NO hints about Remus's feelings."

Del replies:
Yes we do. The very fact that both Arthur and Molly have been
discussing this with Lupin is a sign that Lupin loves Tonks. If he
didn't, he would have told so to the Weasleys, and it's Tonks they
would be chiding, for acting like an idiot. Instead, they clearly both
know that the reason Lupin doesn't want to give in is because he
thinks he's not good enough for Tonks (which they rightfully both find
ridiculous), not because he doesn't love her.

Lissa wrote:
"There's no foreshadowing in OotP, and there are places for it."

Del replies:
Hee :-) That's funny because I felt pretty sure after OoP that Tonks
and Lupin had feelings for each other.

Lissa wrote:
"When Tonks fell in the Ministry, Remus could have at least looked her
direction.  Rather, it's Moody that crawls over to revive her- Remus's
entire attention is focused on Harry and Sirius."

Del replies:
Hum, I think you're forgetting that Harry is about to *kill himself*
by jumping through the Veil, and that Sirius was not just anybody for
Remus: he was his last remaining best friend.

If it was Ron who had just fallen through the Veil, and Hermione was
about to jump through it too, do you really think that Harry would go
and check on Ginny instead of holding Hermione back?

Lissa wrote:
"They treat each other as colleagues and I'd certainly believe
friends, but not anything special."

Del replies:
Funny :-) From the very first time we see them together, I got the
feeling that there was something more than friendship between those
two. Their little dialogue when Lupin introduces Tonks to Harry made
me feel like they had a closer relationship than "just friends". The
fact that they both remained on the Knight Bus after dropping the kids
in Hogsmeade made me think that they wanted to remain together: Tonks
is an Auror, I'm sure she can Apparate, so she could (should?) have
accompanied the kids all the way to Hogwarts, and then Apparated back
to London. Instead, she let the kids go unprotected, and apparently
remained on the Knight Bus - with Lupin, who AFAIK can't Apparate...
And in the end, when Moody and some others show up at the train
station to talk to Uncle Vernon, Lupin is described as standing next
to Tonks. Since my mind was already open to the possibility of a ship
between those two, this looked like a reinforcement to me.

I'm not saying those are overwhelming clues, of course not :-) I'm
just saying that somehow they did trigger the ship button in my mind. 

And so when we saw a depressed Tonks in HBP talking privately to Molly
late at night, I immediately assumed that it had something to do with
Lupin, a suspicion that got bigger when Molly invited Tonks to a
dinner where she pointedly mentioned that Lupin was going to come.

Unfortunately, the stupidest thing happened then: I believed Ginny. I
took her word for granted that Molly was only trying to shove Tonks on
Bill. And later I believed Hermione, when she said that Tonks was
depressed over Sirius. I can't believe I was so stupid :-) Needless to
say, I felt like kicking myself in the end :-D

                                                                   And
it's too bad really, because there are quite a few hints in HBP, and I
would have picked up on them if I hadn't been blinded to them.
Christmas, in particular, is full of them. Remus staring into the fire
while Celestina is singing her love songs. Molly pointedly asking
Remus (and nobody else) if he has spoken to Tonks lately, even though
we are not privy to *any* reason why Lupin should know Tonks's
whereabouts or plans. Lupin taking his time and giving a very
reluctant answer to Harry's technical question about how and why
Patronuses can change. All those are signs that something is off.

And of course, learning that Lupin is working underground, cannot
freely correspond with anyone, and is in quite some danger and anguish
(having, as you pointed out, to work in the immediate vicinity of the
werewolf who bit him), while at the same time Tonks is depressed...

Lissa wrote:
"But the lack of any feeling or any hint from Remus about Tonks is
what makes my reaction go from the grin I got from Fleur's reaction to
Bill to cringing and recommending Tonks read "He's Just Not That Into
You.""

Del replies:
If Lupin was not into Tonks, that's what he would say. He wouldn't say
*for the millionth time* that Tonks deserves better than him. If he
really wasn't interested in her, you'd think that sometime after the
thousandth time, he would simply have started telling her "Look Tonks,
I just don't love you that way, OK?". But no, instead it's all that
crap about how he's too old, too poor, blah blah, pity party.

Lissa wrote:
"I know Remus is a private person, and yes, the books are from Harry's
POV, but if the author wants me to believe that Remus loves Tonks, I
need to be shown, not told."

Del replies:
Heh heh :-) Do I know that refrain...

Lissa wrote:
"There are ways to do it, and it doesn't have to be big.  Heck, all it
took me to buy Fleur and Bill was an interested look from her and a
typical little brother wisecrack from the twins."

Del replies:
What about the fact that Molly keeps mentioning Lupin to Tonks, and
Tonks to Lupin? Typical Molly :-)

I know that I'm not the only one who picked up on the Lupin/Tonks
clues in OoP. I remember posts pre-HBP about how they would end up
together because Lupin is the Grey King in Alchemy (did I get that
right?) and so he would have a young and vibrant wife, which we agreed
would be Tonks.

However, and even though I don't have the numbers, I'd bet my Galleons
that there were much less Lupin/Tonks shippers than there were
Remus/Sirius ones :-) Just goes to show that foreshadowing is not an
exact science, which is why I'm a bit sad that JKR was so hard on the
H/H shippers. I was always a R/H, both because that's where my
instinct took me and because I don't think Hermione would be happy
with Harry, but I could see that the H/H shippers had good reasons to
believe the way they did. I didn't see things the way they did, but I
could understand that many people would. Similarly, I was very happy
with the frienship between Sirius and Remus, but I could understand
why some people saw more in it. We all read the books differently,
because we're all different.

Del