Paradox of Time Travel in PoA - Before & After

[smilingator4915]

No: HPFGUIDX 136706

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Collins"
<sandra87b at y...> wrote:

> You are so right on this point [agreeing with Dave's post]. I've
>been making it for a while and 
> some people go along with it, others block it out, and some get 
> cross. 

smilingator:
I suppose I fall into the category of "blocking it out". I do
understand the point that you and Dave are trying to make and I have
mentioned this in previous posts. Because of the warnings from
Hermione and McGonagall, I see that in the Potterverse, time traveling
can change past events. However, from the series of events that took
place the night Sirius escaped on Buckbeak, I have seen no canon
evidence that anything was changed. I could assume that something was
changed and in doing so, the time traveler created an alternate
universe. But, again, I see no clues or hints or dialogue that there
was another series of events other than what happened.

>If Harry was saving someone else's life, ie if only Sirius 
> was there being attacked and Harry saves him with a Patronus, 
> then I think it's okay (for that particular section). I don't 
> understand why so many people can't see this very simple, but 
> very large, plot hole. You can't save yourself from being killed, if 
> the only reason you survive is because a 'post-death' you went 
> back! It makes my head spin that not only was it not dealt with by 
> an editor, but it also made it onto film!

I do see how a large plot hole would be there if, as you said, the
only reason you survive the attack is because a post-death you comes
back in time. My question is, "Where is the canon evidence that Harry
died?"

Steve, I finally understand how there could be a paradox here. It
depends on how one looks at time in general. For those in the Theory
1, alternate universe camp, they have a real issue with the way JKR
wrote this story, so they think there is a paradox problem. It is kind
of like the "which came first, the chicken or the egg" debate I had
with myself when I watched "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" many
many years ago. For Harry to go back in time he had to survive the
dementor attack. But for Harry to survive the dementor attack, it
required the use of his future self. So, which came first: Harry
surviving (in which case someone else helped him) or Harry traveling
from the future to save himself (in which case he had to come from an
alternate universe since he had "died" in the former one before). But,
in either case, I have not seen canon evidence that this occurred.
Again, I ask for people in this camp please show me evidence from the
story that something was changed. I doubt that this will ever be
resolved, but I like the argument and considering all the different
view points is excellent for me.

smilingator -- (who is a relatively new physics teacher and thinks
this type of discussion would be a great introduction to the subject
time).