Paradox of Time Travel in PoA - Before & After

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 136985

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "smilingator4915"
<smilingator81 at a...> wrote:
> smilingator:
> ...edited...
> 
> Steve, I finally understand how there could be a paradox here. ...
> For those in the Theory 1, alternate universe camp, they have a real
> issue with the way JKR wrote this story, so they think there is a 
> paradox problem. It is kind of like the "which came first, the 
> chicken or the egg" debate ... For Harry to go back in time he had 
> to survive the dementor attack. But for Harry to survive the 
> dementor attack, it required the use of his future self. ... Again,
> I ask for people in this camp please show me evidence from the story 
> that something was changed. I doubt that this will ever be resolved, 
> but I like the argument and considering all the different view 
> points is excellent for me.
> 
> smilingator 

bboyminn:

First, no one is invalidating the Multiple Time Line Theory of time
travel *in general*, but there is evidence or at least hints in the
books that tell us that this is simply not the theory the JKR used.
Unfortunately, the Multi-Time theorist are so fixated on when Harry
and Hermoine LEFT the timeline that they keep forgetting when they
ENTERED the timeline.

There are clues in the book, hints that tell us the TT!Harry and
TT!Hermione were always there. NT!Harry and NT!Herione (NT!=Normal
Time) heard TT!Harry and TT!Hermione in the Entrance Hall. In the
second re-counting of the events, TT!Harry and TT!Hermione hear
NT!Harry and NT!Hermione along with Ron out in the Entrance Hall.
That's not an absolute statement of fact, but it's a strong enough and
intentional enough hint to settle it for me. They heard each other;
therefore, they were ALL ALWAYS THERE. Since Harry was there, he was
there to save himself. Simple as that.

Anytime you have reverse/backward time travel, you will have the
effect before the cause. We see the effects of Harry and Hermione time
traveling before we know the cause; effect-Harry saved Harry,
cause-Harry time traveled. That in and of itself is enough to create a
paradox. However, it's nnly a big unresolvable paradox if you insist
on starting history in the future and working back in time.

But when you look at the fact that TT!Harry arrived in the time line
at 6:00pm and time moves forward from there, then I can't see where
there can be any problem. He is there at 6:00pm on that evening. From
that point on, he is always there. Again, the book leaves clues
establishing that TT!Harry andTT!Hermione arrive at 6:00pm and that
NT!Harry, NT!Hermione, and Ron are aware of their presence even if
they don't know specifically who it is.

Back to one of my original points, you can argue free-will all you
want, but Harry and Hermione did not go back in time to save Harry,
they went back in time to save Sirius using Buckbeak; Buckbeak who
Dumbledore already knew had escaped. When I said that Dumbledore,
Harry, and Hermione view saving Sirius as a future event, that was
true. In their frame of reference and knowledge, they don't know that
as they speak TT!Harry and TT!Hermione are in the process of saving
Sirius. That /knowledge/ comes to them in THEIR FUTURE. 

Harry, having arrived at 6:00pm, didn't arrive to save himself, he
didn't even run out of Hagrid's hut to save himself, he didn't stand
by the lake to save himself, he didn't even know that HE would saved
himself until the last minute, and by his own revelation and free-will
choice, he did it; he saved himself. And, why not, he was there,
nothing else to do, so why not save himself?

Multiple Timeline Theory is valid in general discussion, but JKR
specifically put clues in the story to tell us that this in NOT the
timeline theory she was using. 

Theory 1- Multiple Timelines - has a huge unresolvable hole in it.

Theory 2- Single Timeline - doesn't

Why would anyone cling the the theory that DOESN'T work, when we have
one that does?

Of course, that's just one man's opinion...oh yes, and most likely the
author's too.

steve/bboyminn