Putting words in other posters' mouth / canon

[tamaraburuma]

No: HPFGUIDX 136938

Del replies:

> 1. Show me where to find the factual HappyBoyfriend!Harry.



I believe this was the thing this entire discussion started about, 
so I have tried to return to that discussion. I don't know what the 
best place is to post my answer, so forgive me if this isn't.

I am a great fan of the H/G ship, and I think JKR wrote about it in 
a very nice way. I saw that many people don't feel the same about 
this, and wanted canon to support my view that the ship was shown 
properly in HBP. I read a lot of messages about this, and many of 
them made me doubt. I know I liked the reationship, but based on 
what? So I decided to take the book again and write down everything 
that could possibly be a clue about the ship. Now, before I go 
analyze all the canon about this, there are a few remarks that might 
help people to understand my view.
1.	I haven't written often on this group, so I am sorry if I 
make a mistake about the way I do it. Also, I apologize for any 
mistakes in my English, but it isn't my mother language.
2.	I use some arguments I have already read somewhere, but I 
have forgotten by who. So I apologize for using these arguments 
again, but I wanted to make something of an overview.
3.	I am only 19 years old and the 2-years relationship I have 
now is my first, so maybe I am still a bit too romantic about stuff.
4.	Since most people seem to agree that the H/G ship was 
coming, I have only reread the chapters since their first kiss (25-
30)

I would like to hear comments from others on this. 

Chaper 25: 
1. "
something that was making him happier than he could
remember 
being for a very long time."
- This clearly says something about Harry's feelings. There is
much 
less about Ginny's feelings, but since Harry is the main
character, 
I don't find that so surprising. You don't read a lot about
how Ron 
and Hermione think or feel either; just that what Harry sees. (see 
4, 5, 10)  
2. "
said Ginny, as she sat on the common-room floor, leaning 
against Harry's legs and reading the Daily Prophet."
- I like moments like this the most. When I am close to my 
boyfriend, but doing something for myself. It makes me feel 
extremely comfortable. It just becomes natural to be together, 
instead of something weird (like with Cho). I think it shows us that 
Ginny is really comfortable around Harry, and clearly states that 
she likes him, more than just as a friend. At least, I would never 
sit like that with just a friend.
3. "Harry and Ginny's time together becoming increasingly 
restricted."
- There had to happen so much in this book, I think JKR wanted to 
give a reason with this to why there wasn't more about the two of 
them. Their ship is important to make Harry more `real' and
maybe 
even to show us his age and character, but it isn't the most 
important plot, so space had to be provided for other storylines. 
4. "
reliving a particularly happy hour he had spent down by the 
lake with Ginny at lunch-time."
- Again, about Harry, but this one and all the other ones about 
Harry give me the idea that at least for him this relation was 
important and special. ( see 1, 5, 10)
5. "
told him off for distracting Ginny when she ought to be
working 
hard."
-  they do spend time together. ( See also 1, 4, 10)
6. "
share it between yourselves and Ginny too. Say goodbye to
her 
from me."
- I noticed that, aside from his best friends, Ginny had to get it 
as well, but not the other DA members. So clearly, Ginny has moved 
up from being just a friend, to being a special friend. Now, my 
boyfriend happened to be one of my best friends as well. But I can 
see why some people see this as proof that Ginny is nothing more 
than his best friends. I think it doesn't necessarily have to
show 
that H/G ship is deeper than a very close friendship. We need other 
proof for that. It does however show IMO that their relationship has 
evolved into one at least as close as the one with Ron and Hermione, 
in a much shorter time. (See 7, 9) 

Chapter 27: 
7. "Had Ron's, Hermione's and Ginny's luck run out by
now?"
- See 6.

Chapter 29: 
8. "
a much smaller and warmer hand had enclosed his and was
pulling 
him upwards. He obeyed its pressure without really thinking about 
it. Only as he walked blindly back through the crowd did he realise, 
from a trace of flowery scent on the air, that it was Ginny who was 
leading him back into the castle."
- I found this a significant scene for several reasons. From
Harry's 
point of view; he does not let himself be let away by Hagrid, one of 
the first characters he became good friends with (even before 
Hermione). However, he let himself be moved by Ginny, almost 
unconsciously. Clearly, his trust in her had already become so big, 
that he followed her lead when he felt very bad. To me, that shows a 
very deep relation.
>From Ginny's point of view; All the others go to the hospital
wing, 
but she goes to find Harry. Now, we don't know why Ron and
Hermione 
didn't come with her (they weren't in bed, so physically it
would 
have been possible for them) Perhaps McGonagall would only allow one 
person to go look for him, but why would she sent Ginny, who Harry 
has only been seeing for a couple of weeks, instead of Ron or 
Hermione, who have been his friend for years? (In CoS) She did get 
Harry and Ron specifically because Hermione was wounded, so she does 
acknowledge their friendship as a very close one) I think Ginny must 
have chosen to do so, and therefore perhaps Ron and Hermione
weren't 
allowed to go with her. But then Ginny rather went to look for Harry 
than stay with her very wounded brother; she chooses her boyfriend 
over her family. That must mean she cares very much about Harry, and 
indeed loves him deeply. This was for me perhaps the most important 
evidence that the relation was important to both of them, and indeed 
a very deep one as well.
 
Chapter 30: 
9. "Harry, Ron Hermione and Ginny were spending all of their time 
together."
- See 6.
10. "And hour by hour, he put off saying the thing that he new he 
must say, doing what he knew was the right thing to do, because it 
was too hard to forgo his best source of comfort."
- This is an example of a complain I have been reading a lot. The 
romance is too much described as some kind of epic romance, with a 
hero, who knows he must choose the world over his girl, and a girl, 
who waits patiently for her hero to return. Now, I can see why 
people don't like that, but as has been stated before, this is
the 
way the books are. Harry is an old-fashioned hero, who has to save 
the world, even though this means giving everything else up. So, as 
long as the romance is properly described, even if it is a hero's 
romance, it still would be a good written romance by JKR, since it 
would fit with the rest of the books. (And of course, I love that 
kind of stuff J) So I can see that you wouldn't like it, but it
says 
nothing about JKR's writing. (See 18, 19, 20, 21, 24, 26, 27)
This part shows again that for Harry, this relation is very 
important (his best source of comfort). (See 1, 4, 5,) 
11. "`Ugly, though,' he added hastily, as Ginny raised her
eyebrows, 
and she let out a reluctant giggle."
- According to someone, this was a bad sign, since Harry felt like 
not being able to say what he thinks. According to me, this is 
perfectly normal behaviour for a couple. First of all, Harry's
most 
important lesson from the fiasco-date with Cho was that he
shouldn't 
make a (possible) girlfriend jealous. So, he realizes he must say 
something to make sure Ginny isn't jealous. Second, they have
been 
dating for a short time only, so if I were Ginny, I would feel 
insecure if Harry said something nice about another girl! It's
very 
nice of him to say something like this to make Ginny feel better, 
even if both know it wouldn't be necessarily probably. And
thirdly, 
I know lots of couples who, even though they know it isn't 
necessarily, would always say something like this, as a kind of joke 
not to feel jealous. From Ginny's giggle, I make up that she
knows 
she has nothing to worry about, and the whole thing is just a 
confirmation, a kind thing to say, and of course a compliment as it 
indicates that Harry does think Ginny is beautiful. It's just
such a 
thing a couple would say to each other.
12. "She kissed Harry[
], waved at the other two
"
- Okay, to everyone who thinks this is weird, you're absolutely 
right. Why don't they go somewhere privately to say goodnight?
Why 
doesn't Harry say he hopes she will sleep well? This scene just 
seems wrong to me. 
13. "A nudge in the ribs from Ginny."
- According to some, this was strange, because it isn't very 
affectionate. But they are still teenagers, and to them (usJ) this 
would be an affective way to call the attention of a good friend. 
And during breakfast, I think your lover is usually more your best 
friend than your lover, so I see no reason why a happy couple 
couldn't do this to each other. It's also a good way to call 
someone's attention when you don't want to make a lot of
noise, likt 
during the funeral. So yes, it might not be the most romantic way to 
caal your boyfriend's attention, but it doesn't prove their
relation 
is not a very good one. (see 14, 15)
14. "In there, whispered Ginny in Harry's ear."
- See 13
15. "Then Ginny nudged him again"
- see 13
16. "
he looked away from Ginny and the others."
- Maybe this seems strange; looking away when you might need 
comfort, but as has been stated before, everyone grieves 
differently, and I know I would probably do the same. 
17. "Ginny was no longer crying. She met Harry's gaze with
the same, 
hard, blazing look that he had seen when she had hugged him after 
winning the Quidditch cup in his absence, and he knew that at that 
moment they understood each other perfectly, and that when he told 
her what he was going to do now, she would not say `be
careful', 
or `don't do it', but accept his decision, because she
would not 
have expected anything less of him."
- As I said under no. 1, you only learn about Ginny's feelings 
through Harry's eyes. So I just have to take his word for it that 
they did understand each other perfectly. So I accept that, and then 
I think that understanding each other perfectly is very good 
evidence for a wonderful relationship. By the way, don't you just 
love it that Ginny lookes at the end of their relation the same as 
at their beginning?
18. "`Ginny, listen
" he said very quietly [
] I
can't be involved 
with you any more. We've got to stop seeing each other. We
can't be 
together.'"
- See the first part of 10
19. "She said, with an oddly twisted smile, 'It's for
some stupid, 
noble reason, isn't it?'"
- See the first part of 10. So Ginny is the girl, waiting for her 
knight, understanding perfectly that the Hero has to go. You can 
hate it or like it, but it does go with the rest of the story.
20. "It's been like
like something out of someone
else's life, these 
last few weeks with you,' said Harry. `But I can't 

we can't
I've 
got things to do alone now.'"
- See 10
21. "She did not cry, she simply looked at him."
- This might be strange to us, but in a fairytale, it would make 
sense. Why cry if you know your hero is going to do what he has to 
do? And it is a fairytale, after all. 
22. "`Voldemort uses people his enemies are close to. He's
already 
used you as bait once, and that was just because you're my best 
friend's sister. Think how much danger you'll be in if we
keep this 
up. He'll know, he'll find out. He'll try and get to me
through 
you.'"
- According to some, this wasn't a very valid argument, since
Ginny 
would still be in danger. But Harry might truly believe Voldemort 
would not know about their bond (they haven't been together for
that 
long, after all). More importantly, though, he needs all the time he 
has to fight Voldemort, and just can't have anyone around who
might 
wish some of his time (and he would not be able to resist Ginny). 
However, saying she might be in danger sounds like a much better 
excuse than saying I don't have time for this. And is breaking up 
not the most common moment to use excuses?
23. "`What if I don't care?' said Ginny fiercely."
- Wow, she must really like him, if she doesn't mind facing 
Voldemort for him!
24. "`I care,'said harry, `How dop you think I'd
feel if this was 
your funeral
and it was my fault
'
She looked away from him, over the lake."
- Okay, very epic, very romantic, very nice! (see 10)
25. "`I never really gave up on you,' she said. `Not
really. I 
always hoped
Hermione told me to get on with life, maybe go out
with 
some other people, relax a bit around you, because I never used to 
be able to talk if you were in the room, remember? And she thought 
you might take a bit more notice if I was a bit more –
myself.'"
- According to some, this proves that Ginny doesn't like Harry
for 
who he is, but because he is famous. Now, I know a lot of girls who 
kept having a crush on someone for years, especially if the guys 
didn't want them. So this does seem very teenage like behaviour
to 
me. But that would only work, if the guy really is very nice, and 
not just famous. So yeah, maybe Ginny liked Harry at first because 
of something else then who he is, but that doesn't mean she
doesn't 
like him now for who he is. I am convinced their relation is a very 
good one, especially because of no. 2, 8 and 17. They would never be 
able to have such a good relation if Ginny didn't like Harry
because 
of who he is. Also, when in OoP everyone avoided harry because the 
thought he was a lunatic, Ginny still spoke with him and was his 
friend. That can't have been because he was famous, so why would
she 
have returned to that reason in book 6? It might have started as the 
reason for her to have a crush on him, but it can't be the reason 
she still likes him (maybe even more now!) 
26. "`Smart girl, that Hermione,'said Harry, trying to
smile. `I 
just wish I'd asked you sooner. We could've had ages

months
years 
maybe
'
`But you've been too busy saving the wizarding world,'
said Ginny, 
half-laughing. `Well
 I can't say I'm surprised. I
knew this would 
happen in the end. I knew you wouldn't be happy unless you were 
hunting Voldemort. Maybe that's why I like you so much.'"
- Again, very fairytale like, but it shows again that Harry at least 
loves and needs Ginny very much. And Ginny actually says here that 
she likes Harry a lot, something that indeed doesn't happen too 
often in HBP. (See 10)
27. "Harry could not bear to hear these things, nor did he think
his 
resolution would hold if he remained sitting beside her."
- So yes, as a Hero, he must leave her, but he really doesn't
want 
to. Isn't that sweet!

My conclusion; I understand that people would have liked a bit more 
signs of this romance in the story. And perhaps a little bit less 
like a fairytale. But JKR has given us enough proof for the romance 
to be a realistic and deep one. So two thumbs up for the H/G SHIP!! 

Tamara