for whom are the books named?, Re: Possible message in Evil!Snape

[unicorn_72]

No: HPFGUIDX 137093

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "ladyljd" <ladyljd at y...> 
(snipped)wrote:

> 
> We are treated to a rather sympathetic back-story of Tom Riddle in 
> HBP.  Could this mean he is capable of some form of redemption?  
If 
> there is more Snape back-story, you can be certain it will NOT be 
> sympathetic.  After all, JKR has said that Snape's knowledge of 
love 
> makes him EVEN MORE CULPABLE than Riddle.  Perhaps this puts Snape 
> in the beyond redemption column for JKR.


KarentheUnicorn's Reply:

Was.....that a sympathetic back story for TOM?? I was sympathetic to 
his mother, but not to him, he was a braty little git from the first 
moment Dumbledore saw him......I don't see where Tom Riddles story 
was...um..Sympathetic unless you mean from his mothers point of 
view...
As for JKR's comment about Snape being Culpable, it was because he 
had been loved, that suggests to me that he would understand love. 
In that she is saying Snape is more culpable than Riddle because 
Riddle never loved and can't love. So, what would that imply--To me 
that means Riddle can't be saved if he can't love or understand 
love. Then from that comment I draw that Snape can because he 
understands love. The key point here is what is Snape culpable for? 
Is JKR talking Book 7 Culpable....Is she talking Book 1-6 Culpable, 
or is she talking about His past?? Or is it all together in one big 
lump culpable. Its really hard to say with JKR's comments, as, lots 
of times like the book, people see her comments and the books 
themselves in a different lite.

Many people can read the same chapter and come off with a different 
interpritation of it, so, we can all read the Culpable line and get 
something different from it.

"ladyljd" wrote:

> 
> More and more, I believe JKR sees Snape himself as immaterial to 
the 
> story.  Yes his actions will be a major trigger of the final 
outcome 
> but his ability to direct or (pun intended)spin this tale have 
come 
> to an end.  If there were a poll on this, I'd vote for him to be 
> dead by or before chapter 13 of book 7.

KarentheUnicorn's Reply: 

I don't know...Snape immaterial, huh?? The only thing I can say to 
that is, Book 6 is called Half Blood Prince, we all are left with 
the idea that Snape is the Half Blood Prince, what EXACTLY did we 
get about Snape really, where his house is, what he told Belle and 
Narcissa, His mom and Dad's name? It seems to me we got more about 
Tom Riddle than we did about Snape, SOooo....If the book was Titled 
HBP and Snape is the HBP, then why did we get....little drips about 
him writting in a book...mommy and daddy's name....sheash. Why does 
she save so much about Snape? It seems sparingly little really when 
the book is titled after him. Really we got hardly anything about 
him IMO, and we got a lot LOT LOT of speculation over what was going 
on really, Most of the theories are about Snape....Did he really 
kill Dumbledore...why didn't he kidnap Harry, how come Harry looked 
Lame fighting Snape...etc etc, and WE STILL have people wondering 
who's side he is on. I'm sorry, JKR thinks Snape is 
immaterial.....If he is good or evil, I don't think Snape is 
immaterial to JKR, I think he is way more importaint than she is 
willing to admit.


"ladyljd"wrote:

  Her hero MUST be proven right at all 
> costs.  Harry is her hero and he has fixed his opinion of Snape 
> after careful thought - and at a very late stage in this story.  
He 
> cannot be wrong and remain Our Hero.  Therefore, whatever his 
> actions and/or motives, Snape MUST be proven to be evil through 
and 
> through.  All of his actions throughout the series can be taken at 
> face value.  There is no more depth to this character. 

KarentheUnicorn's Reply:

Since when does a Hero have to always be right, I though a Hero 
should be someone when they realize they are wrong admits it and can 
learn forgivness and can go on and do the task at hand whatever it 
may be. IF heros were always right, there would be a WHOLE lot more 
heroic people living instead of dead. War stories are filled with 
Heros that die for others, die for mistakes, or just die, and as an 
old favorite cartoon character of mine says, There is a thin line 
between being a hero and being a memory.

OK, I remember that JKR said somethint to the effect of..I made a 
Pefect Hero in Harry, why do all you girls like the bad guys...or 
I'm paraphrasing here. But...I'm sorry, Perfect is boring if you ask 
me, and if she thinks Harry is perfect or anyone else outthere 
thinks he's perfect.....then The world is more screwed up than I 
though. PERFECT does not make a HERO--Mistakes and learning from 
them DO.

Now I might be coming off as if I don't like the kid, but I like 
Harry a lot, by he does make a lot of mistakes in the books about 
people and other things, so if JKR is going to make the hero right 
about everything in the books at the end...it seems a poor example 
to me since, he's been right half the time and wrong half the 
time...its sorta equal, and makes him more human.

I will say yes, the book is called Harry Potter, but, I don't think 
JKR is going to just be thinking about Harry in the end--it would be 
a cheat to all the people who's favorite characters are other 
characters besides Harry, and I have NOT seen where this book is 
Just all about Harry. We basicly see the story through Harry's eyes, 
but this book has been about a lot of characters--we just get it 
form Harrys point of view. I also think Harry himself would be very 
ashamed to think this story has just been about him, I believe he 
would be rather imbarrised to think of it that way.

Maybe Snape is evil, maybe he's just screwed up perminatly because 
of how the world is, but to me every single character in the book is 
flawed. In a lot of ways I see Snape and Harry as parallels of each 
other. JKR did say its more personal now, Harry and Snape-- So, I 
think by JKR saying that means, something big is going to happen 
between the two--personal means--feelings, not just I hate you I'm 
going to blast you for no good reason. We see in the scene in HBP 
where Harry is running after Snape....and we are witness to Snape 
becoming something of a surprise. We know he is powerful--he didn't 
send Lockhart flying across the room for nothing--but, we are 
suddenly shown BY SNAPE how inadiquite Harry is.

Maybe JKR will give a reason for this, I don't know--but it sure 
looked like Harry was a fly getting swated to me. A lot of people 
have speculated that Snape was still teaching Harry their, Learn to 
close your mouth and use your mind Potter (sorry Paraphrasing here 
since I don't have my book open. The Snape having a expression of 
Pain is another point a lot of people make, and I can't see Snape 
after he just gave harry a workover getting all anksty pained 
expression just because Harry called him a coward. The spell he uses 
then was like he smacked Harry across the face. 

If we are to believe that Snape is an expert at getting into the 
kids minds, then he has known for a really long time what Harry 
thinks of him, I am reminded that in Book one on a skim through, 
during a chapter involving Christmas, when hagrid is bringing in a 
christmas tree....Harry actually says about Snape and Draco I hate 
them (paraphrasing) but he did say I hate, so....I see that if Snape 
has been using his mind reading skills on Harry at least some of the 
time, he would obviously get the I HATE YOU VIBE. Neither one have 
really given each other a chance I think, and thats the problem.

It sorta reminds me of the whole Teenage Parent thing, at some point 
around 11-17 most teenagers pretty much think their parents or any 
authority figure is dumb...its when the most arguments between 
parents and kids happens it seems. Teens end up sometime even Hating 
their parents and having big drag um out fights and yelling matches 
over things....but a lot of time, in the end teens learn that their 
parents really did have their best interest at heart, even when it 
looked like the adults were really stupid....

Was Dumbledore Stupid to trust Snape.....maybe...and then 
again....maybe not, only book 7 will tell us....but, since the book 
is about mostly teenage stuff--I GOTA GOTA hope we are going to get 
more real teenage happenings, besides who is kissing who and the 
relationship LOVE TRIAGLE CRAP.....If thats all the symblace we 
get...meh...I don't know, the huggy kissy stuff, I mean, I'm just as 
romantic as all heck, but it did anksty me a little as to how much 
of that crap was in the book, I personally would have rather, I 
don't know, anything, we could have at least seen the rest of the 
HBP's house....or more DADA classes with Snape...instead of..oh look 
Hermione is chasing Ron with birds..ahahaha..meh...OK..I'm 
complaining now and I shouldn't (FOFLOL) ok, it was funny now that I 
think about it, but still....meh. I think JKR was getting all the 
LOVE ROMANCE and TEENAGE HOTTY TOTTY NESS out of the way so #7 is 
going to be more serious....sheash I hope so. Anyway, I have gotten 
way off topic here...but,

I'm hoping book 7 will clear up all this mess, with less romantic 
ankstyness....well, at least a girl can hope.....wait, HOW come 
their is so much romantic anksty teenage love cray in the book that 
is supposed to be all about Snape......utter confsion on this 
point...HBP=Anksty Teenage LOVE...WTH???

hehe

KarentheUnicorn