No AKs - just the Ministry room of Love Was (Re: Harry using AK curse?? Yes.

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 137115

> Saraquel:
> In the world of the book it has been made very clear that using
> any of the unforgivable curses is being seduced by the dark arts.
>  Harry now has natural rage and vengeance coursing through him and
> all he wants to do is inflict pain on those who have inflicted 
> pain on him.  But this is the easy option, not the right option –
> to quote DD's homily.  Is Harry ever going to have the skill and 
> the opportunity to AK Voldemort or Snape – er No I don't think 
> so.  If Harry thinks he can beat Voldemort or Snape at their own
> game then – end game as far as I'm concerned. JMO of course.

Jen: This is very true, Harry cannot follow this course. But he is 
starting to dabble more in dark magic in HBP, especially when his 
anger gets the best of him. That scene with Harry chasing Snape 
across the grounds as Snape flicks off all of Harry's spells is the 
main reason why I believe there's some good in Snape. Unlike Bella, 
who taunts Harry in OOTP, and even attempts to teach him the *right* 
way to cast an Unforgiveable (shades of Barty Crouch, Jr. as well), 
Snape takes the hard line here: "No Unforgiveable curses from you, 
Potter!" 

Saraquel: 
> Harry is not a particularly impressive wizard.  He has his 
> specialities but otherwise he's fairly ordinary, and I think JKR 
> deliberately made him that way.  Dumbledore is a master wizard,
> and in his opinion, Love is the thing.  Dumbledore has always
> thought this, Voldemort sneers at him for this in the scene in the
> pensieve where he comes ostensibly to try and get the DADA job.
> Harry dismisses it almost, when Dumbledore reveals to him that it
> is his weapon.  It seems that members of the list may well agree,
> that love is not enough.  But I'm with DD on this one, and I 
>suspect that we're sailing in JKR's boat too. ** Love is all you
> need.**

Jen: I like Dumbledore's explanation at first, 'yes Harry, you *can* 
love'(chap. 23, p. 509), which somehow appeals to me more than just 
Love, and all the songs that go with that, lol. Harry's ability to 
love, to feel love, even though he's been abandoned, lived through a 
wretched situation at the Dursleys, seen all of his mentors die.... 

Harry must remain that way, with an intact soul and pure of heart, 
when he faces Voldemort after the Horcruxes are extinguished. 
I don't think Harry's a Horcrux, but I do think Voldemort 
underestimated once again by taking Harry's blood. And not because 
of Lily's protection factor, either. I think having Harry's blood 
will cause an effect like the brother wands, or the posession, and 
Voldemort won't be able to AK Harry. Once again the curse will 
rebound because Voldemort has Harry's blood in his veins. His 
*valuable* blood, according to Dumbledore, the blood of a remarkably 
pure soul who can love. Another in the long line of ways Voldemort 
chose his own enemy, and made him very powerful.

Saraquel: 
> Let's go back to the Department of Mysteries and a room in the 
> basement which is full of the power of Love.  Well it made short 
> work of Harry's knife, when he tried to open the door.  Let's say 
> that Harry collects together Voldemort's Horcruxes (this is a 
> theory in the making, don't expect all lose threads tied up here)
> including Nagini if he can get his hands on her – perhaps he can
> sweet-talk her in parseltongue.  Then they all go for a picnic 
> down to the Ministry and Harry sends Voldemort an invitation via 
> his patronus –"Harry and the Horcruxes cordially invite you to a
> firework display  in the room of Love. Dress code: funerial."  

Jen: Hee! I'm with you so far.....

Saraquel:
<snipping>
> Harry somehow lures Voldemort into the Room of Love, not that 
> difficult if he has all Voldemorts Horcruxes in his hands as bait. 
> The Room of Love is like a gigantic mirror in which one sees 
> everything about oneself  illuminated in the light of what is 
> Right – with a very big capital R.  At that point there is
> blinding self-realisation, which brings about internal agonies
> which the cruciatus curse can only hint at.  (Anyone who has gone 
> through an "Oh my god how wrong I was about that one" moment, will
> be quite well aware of just how painful self-realisation can be – 
> which gives you a hint that I've been there :-)  ) One sees
> oneself measured against perfection, and motives count.  Hence it
> will not be an easy ride for Harry either.  All this crucio stuff
> against his enemies will come back to haunt him at this point, and
> he too will have to go through the mill and out the other side.
>  But his pure untarnished soul should get him through it. However,
> for Voldemort and his evil Horcrux bits, there will be literally,
> hell to pay.  Quite whether this will kill Volemort or just leave
> him crumpled and vanquished, or what I don't know.  

Jen: Your theory reminds me a little bit of Dorian Grey. It's been a 
long time since I read it, but it seems like the moment he puts a 
knife into the painting, all the 'sins' kept apart from his soul are 
torturously visited upon his current self. You know, this reminds me 
a little of the diary scene too, when Harry 'kills' the memory of 
Tom Riddle. And JKR said it was hard to write COS because she didn't 
want to give too much away? JKR also wouldn't comment on whether the 
locked room will be revisted in Book 7, which means it will! Just 
some ideas to push your theory along, don't know what you'll get 
from that stream of conciousness. 

You know, I like the idea the Horcruxes will be thrown in that room, 
or through the veil, to be destroyed. Sort of like Harry slipping 
the bezoar to Slughorn? Yeah, it was the easy way out but also 
clever, and Harry & Co. don't have much time left. 

I want to visit the locked room for another reason--to find out Lily 
worked in the DOM, perhaps in that very room, where she learned 
about the kind of love you're talking about. You suggested it might 
be a Last Judgement Love and I'm hoping for a form of Compassionate 
Love. I think that's the kind of love Dumbledore grew into over his 
lifetime, and when we learn more about DD in Book 7, as JKR 
*promised* ;), we'll find he was a boy and young man much like 
Harry. That he wanted to save the world, and he *did* save a portion 
of the world at Hogwarts, where he understood the importance of 
employing House Elves, offering the centaur herd & merpeople safe 
habitats, giving outcasts homes and jobs, teaching students 
that 'love is more powerful than {Voldemrt's} kind of magic.' (HBP, 
chap. 20, p. 444). That's a remarkable form of love to me.

Jen