Pensieves and other magic (wasRe: HBP (Snape's) old school textbook:

[Deb]

No: HPFGUIDX 137117

Christina writes:
 (Snip)
 Also, I find it difficult to believe that Snape's pensieve memory is
 incorrect just because of Lupin and Sirius's reactions to Harry
 telling them about it.
 
 (OotP, US, page 670)
 "Yeah," said Harry, "but he just attacked Snape **for no good
 reason**, just because - well, just because you said you were 
bored,"
 he finished with a slightly apologetic note in his voice. "I'm not 
proud of it," said Sirius quickly.
 [...and a little later...]
 "Did I ever tell you to lay off Snape?" he said.  "Did I ever have 
the
 guts to tell you I thought you were out of order?"
 "Yeah, well," said Sirius, "you made us feel ashamed of ourselves
 sometimes...That was something..."
 [...down some more...]
 "She started going out with him in seventh year," said Lupin.
 "Once James had deflated his head a bit," said Sirius.
 "And stopped hexing people **just for the fun of it**," said Lupin.
 (end quote- all emphasis mine)
 
 If the Sirius and James felt "ashamed of ourselves" for their  
actions,
 they knew they were in the wrong.  You don't feel shame for actions
 that have ample justification.  Note that Harry specifically 
mentions
 that James and Sirius started the OWL incident without provocation
 from Snape, and not only do Lupin and Sirius refrain from making any
 sort of correction, Sirius even says that he's not proud of what he
 did.  When talking about the prank in PoA (which IMO is a much more
 dangerous incident), Sirius says, "it served him right," but for 
this,
 Sirius just tries to explain why James and Snape disliked each other
 in the first place (putting the blame on both sides).  If James was
 more injured that the pensieve memory showed, why didn't Sirius or
 Lupin make some kind of comment like, "Yeah, we hung him in the air,
 but you should have seen Snape attack James- he was gushing blood
 everywhere!  So whatever we did to him was just."
 
 I have no doubt that Snape got his jabs in where he could and was
 probably pretty vicious, but I also see no reason to believe that 
his
 pensieve memory is wrong.

Deb writes:
  Christina, I agree that the Pensieve memory is accurate, but I 
wonder if maybe our "up to now" interpretation of it is inaccurate - 
or incomplete anyway. I mean, Snape removed that memory to try to 
keep it from Harry, but why that particular memory? As I read this 
section (even for the 4th time) it starts out(after the part about 
the DADA  exam) reading like an "oh no, here we go again" kind of 
memory... It reads to me like there have been many such scenes 
between Snape and the Marauders over the previous 5 years. Where it 
starts to deviate from that apparent pattern is when James is 
pressing Lily to go out with him.. "You think you're funny," she 
said coldly. "But you're just an arrogant, bullying toerag, Potter. 
Leave him *alone*" .... "I will if you go you with me,Evans," said 
James quickly. "Go on...Go out with me, and I'll never lay a wand on 
old Snivelly again". ..... Then as Snape comes out of James' 
Impediment Jinx he lashes out with the Sectumsempra Curse and James 
lashes back with the Levicorpus (interesting that in 5th year both 
of them are able to do nonverbal spell casting). And we can not tell 
for sure if Snape is lashing out at James *just* because of what has 
gone before in this memory, from frustration and rage at a long 
history of bullying, or from jealousy.    

 I wonder if what is "the worst" about this memory for Snape is that 
here he lost control - he who considers lose of emotional control 
equal to weakness. Here he used a potentially deadly curse against a 
school mate(though he obviously was quite controlled in the 
application of it). And here he said something as unforgivable (vis 
a vis social relationships)as any Unforgivable Curse.... he called 
Lily a "Mudblood". And with that, he immediately (from the sounds of 
her comments) destroyed any good will she had toward him. And 
although she might have been intervening between James and Snape in 
the first place just because she was a Prefect, she certainly made 
it clear that even that position would not induce her to intercede 
for him again. Plus she had been with girl friends prior to the 
interaction with James, Snape, and the others ... who undoubtedly 
witnessed all of this. Maybe Snape was attracted to Lily, or 
maybe "Florence" (if Snape was the one caught snogging her behind 
the greenhouse) was in the audience.. or someone else he was 
attracted to... So I wonder if, for Snape, this memory holds not 
only embarassment and humiliation, but also guilt and that squirmy 
ugly feeling one gets when remembering doing something so hideously 
*wrong* that one would gladly sinking straight into the earth and 
never come up again. I think this memory represents for Snape a 
pivotal moment in his adolescence. There may have been consequences 
from this - disciplinary action(will Harry come across that in the 
file boxes?) - but I'll bet that did not irradicate the horrible 
emotional and social consequences-- or the consequences he imposes 
on himself.       

(Snip) 
 
 Christina:
 (Snip)
  but I find it really OOC for Snape
 to use a completely humiliating memory to prove that point.  Snape
 pulls Harry out of the memory just as things start to get *really*
 humiliating.  There's no way he could have planned his exit and
 re-entrance of the room in order to ensure that Harry would be
 interrupted right at the worst part.  Also, I would think that if
 Snape just wanted to say "I told you so" to Harry (concerning  
James),
 he would have continued giving Harry Occlumency lessions just to 
gloat
 at him.  If Snape really planted the memory for Harry to see, he 
would
 have followed it up with endless jabs- "See Potter, what do you 
think
 of old Dad now? *smirk* *sneer* *gloat*"  We don't see any of this. 
 In fact, we see the opposite.  Snape throws Harry (*literally*) out 
of
 his office and refuses to give him additional lessons.  He goes
 against Dumbledore's specific orders to teach Harry, and he *never*
 brings up the pensieve memory again.  Snape is so angry that one of
 his jars explodes.  

 Deb again:
   The in-control, unemotional Snape so angry - so passionate - he 
throws a glass jar at Harry? And goes against Dumbledore's orders to 
teach him Occlumency? Isn't it interesting that apparently only 
Harry and James have ever been able to shake his control like this? 
Snape who rags on Harry for 6 years (up to the end of HBP) to close 
his mind, to control his anger, to block, block, block so that no 
one can read him?  Snape who can prevent Lord Voldemort from reading 
his emotions and memories and therefore can get away with lying to 
the Dark Lord - that master of Legilimency? And I think that is part 
of his anger... now Snape's memory is in Harry's memory... what 
would LV make of this memory being in Harry's mind? Has Snape lied 
to LV about this... is this one of the memories he talks about that 
would disprove a lie he has told to LV? Makes me wonder if Snape's 
mind - or maybe it's his emotions that are being laid bare - is not 
also being opened further than he can manage through these 
Occlumency lessons.  For me the OOC moments for Snape come at other 
times... and on other treads :)  

(Snip)

 Deb- who very much needs a Pensive cuz there are too many thoughts 
and memories of HP incidences to keep track of in "normal" ways.