Pensieves and other magic (wasRe: HBP (Snape's) old school textbook:

[spotsgal]

No: HPFGUIDX 137132

> Deb writes:
>   Christina, I agree that the Pensieve memory is accurate, but I 
> wonder if maybe our "up to now" interpretation of it is inaccurate
> or incomplete anyway. I mean, Snape removed that memory to try to 
> keep it from Harry, but why that particular memory?

Christina:

Ooo, what an interesting question!  The first time Harry has
Occlumency lessons with Snape, it is specified that Snape removes
three of his memories and puts them in the pensieve.  We see the
second lesson start in the middle (Chapter 26), and it is interrupted
by Trelawney, so we don't know how many memories he put in the
pensieve at that time.  During the "Snape's Worst Memory" lesson,
Harry sees Snape putting several thoughts into the pensieve but does
not specify how many.  I would guess that the three memories he wanted
to hide in the first lesson would be the same memories he would want
to hide throughout the lessons.  If this is true, the memories must be
very select (after all, think of all the things Snape must have
experienced in his lifetime that he would want to keep hidden?).

> Deb:
> It reads to me like there have been many such scenes 
> between Snape and the Marauders over the previous 5 years.

Christina:
I agree.  Snape and the Marauders clashed a lot.  What makes this
memory different?

> Deb:
>  I wonder if what is "the worst" about this memory for Snape is
> that here he lost control - he who considers lose of emotional 
> control equal to weakness. Here he used a potentially deadly curse 
> against a school mate(though he obviously was quite controlled in 
> the application of it). And here he said something as unforgivable 
> (vis a vis social relationships)as any Unforgivable Curse.... he 
> called Lily a "Mudblood". 

Christina:
Good point.  Snape is usually quite controlled, a skill necessary to
his spy work, something I think he works hard to keep up and takes a
certain measure of pride in (his reaction to Narcissa's tears is to
look away as though they were "indecent").

I find the "Mudblood" thing really interesting.  Adult Snape has said
a LOT of very cruel things, but I can't recall a single instance of
him using the word Mudblood (aside from the pensieve memory).  As a
matter of fact, I can't think of a time he ever addresses blood status
in general (can anyone find an example?).  I found Lily's reaction to
Snape's "Mudblood" interesting as well:

(OotP, US, page 648)
"I don't need help from filthy little Mudbloods like her!"
Lily blinked.  "Fine," she said coolly.  "I won't bother in future."
(end quote)

At first I was inclined to think that Lily and Snape were friendly and
that's why she was surprised at him lashing out at her.  They couldn't
be too close though, if you consider the fact that Lily's "furious
expression had twistched for an instant as though she was going to
smile," when Snape was first hoisted up.  I think her defending Snape
was supposed to demonstrate her sense of justice.  I suppose you could
say that Lily's reaction was more of a, "How can you insult me when I
just stood up for you?" but I'm not sure that really explains it
either.  Sirius points out that Snape was known for being into the
Dark Arts and even calls him an "oddball."  Also, he *is* a Slytherin,
and they are known for their blood prejudices.  Why was Lily taken
aback at Snape's use of the word "Mudblood?"  It would be like having
a Gryffindor be taken aback by Draco Malfoy using the word.  It just
doesn't sit quite right with me.  In any case, the point I'm trying to
make is that I think you're onto something when you suggest that this
could make this memory particularly bad.

Deb:
> Maybe Snape was attracted to Lily, or 
> maybe "Florence" (if Snape was the one caught snogging her behind 
> the greenhouse) was in the audience.. 

Christina:
Ah, Florence.  I keep wishing that somebody will ask JKR about her,
but alas, nothing.  While I don't think that Lily and Snape were best
buddies or anything, I do believe he had some measure of respect for
her due to her exceptional Potions ability (and perhaps her seemingly
intense dislike and disapproval of James?).  I still believe that
Snape would be most attracted to a woman's mind, which is how I get
away with thinking he had a bit of a thing for Lily without it getting
too "ick" for me :)  I think the "Mudblood" was blurted out in the
heat of the moment due to Snape's embarrassment.

>  Deb again:
>  And I think that is part 
> of his anger... now Snape's memory is in Harry's memory... what 
> would LV make of this memory being in Harry's mind? Has Snape lied 
> to LV about this... is this one of the memories he talks about that 
> would disprove a lie he has told to LV?

Christina:
You're actually getting at what my reasoning is for Snape's choice of
memories to hide in the pensieve.  The things that Harry sees when he
accidentally breaks into Snape's mind are pretty humiliating
(particularly the memory with the laughing girl), so why wouldn't
Snape put those in the pensieve too?  I don't think Snape was putting
things in the pensieve to hide them from Harry- I think he was putting
things in the pensieve to hide them from Voldemort.  We know that
Voldemort has access to Harry's mind.  What is more dangerous for
DoubleAgent!Snape- Harry seeing a memory Snape doesn't want him to, or
Voldemort seeing a memory Snape doesn't want him to?  I think you're
onto something when you say that Snape is worried that Harry now knows
the OWL memory, which means Voldemort probably does too (or sees
snatches of it...it's hard to tell how much LV can get from Harry),
which would account for some of his excessive rage at finding Harry in
the memory.  Of course, the next logical question is, in all of
Snape's life, why is the OWL incident one of the mere *three* memories
Snape *needs* to keep hidden?  You suggested that it might contradict
a lie he told LV, which I agree with- it's the most logical
explanation (and it makes sense in the context of Snape hiding
memories from Voldemort rather than Harry), but I wonder what that lie
would have been and how the memory would have gone against it?


Christina