Last Judgement Love - Was (Re: No AKs )

Fri Aug 12 02:41:33 UTC 2005

No: HPFGUIDX 137350

> Valky wrote:
> > At last after HBP I *finally* have
> > canon backing for this... (Thanks JKR!) and that backing is in 
> > Harry's detentions with Snape. The James and Sirius v Snape feud 
> > went on for many years.....
.....edit... 
> > ........ And who of the two, was never 
> > in detention although guilty of the same and possibly worse, 
> > seemed so completely feckless that a girl came across the lawn to 
> > defend him, and even some 20 years later still utterly denies he 
> > was anything but perfectly innocent of it all so much that he'd 
> > rather shift the blame to an innocent child than face the *truth* 
> > about himself.. well that would be Severus Snape. (A Sniveller)
>

>SSSusan (wrote me and invited me to respond onlist):
>This I don't get, Valky.  WHERE in HBP did you get the information
>that this was always -- ongoing -- a two-way street and yet that
>Snape never served detentions?  What are you saying about *why* he
>never served detentions?  I guess I'm thinking... isn't it possible
>that Sirius & James were in detention more because they did more
>wrong?  Or do you think Snape weasled his way out of detentions... or
>just made sure Harry didn't see the Snape detention cards?
>
>Sorry for being dense, but I'm just not clear on this part.

Valky now:
I don't mind answering that SSSusan. So to your first question, I
don't get from HBP that this was an ongoing two-way street. To clarify
what I meant, I was saying that I believe Sirius tells us the truth
about Snape'a activities in school ie: known dabbler in Dark Arts,
always hexing James, following the Marauders *trying to get them
expelled*. It is on this that I base my premise that canon suggests
the actions of each party were to fairly equally malignant. 
To the second question, HBP canon shows that Snape was not serving
detentions for his hexing of James, and James and Sirius were serving
detention for innumerable petty misdeeds according to the records
Harry was rewriting. So if Snape was hexing James, probably no less
painfully than James was hexing any of his multiple targets, why
wasn't Snape ever punished. Either you believe that Sirius is an out
and out Liar now or you realise Snape was getting away with it. The
pensieve scene definitely suggests that Lily wasn't aware of what
Snape was doing to James (and I really think that James rathered to
look like a monster than sulk to the girl that Snape had hurt him many
times before). And please remember that I'm not trying to justify the
bullying (I do have to keep disclaiming that because sometimes it will
seem that I am) I am simply saying that James apparently did a share
of suffering at Snape's hands, but he wasn't complaining about it.
According to a lot of canon we have, it wan't a bed of roses for
James, and I don't think we should read the Pensieve scene without
that in mind. Snape is the one who has complained constantly about
what James did to him, granted James definitely wasn't nice to Snape,
but I think that the point gets missed because it's well hidden. In
many ways, James was just winning fights in the battle and he was
proud of his ability to *face the fight front on*. Overly proud, yes,
but still.. Snape attacks from behind, so I think James in his own
mind thought it was pretty clear and obvious that he wasn't so bad
compared to Snape. And I think that this is why Sirius thought so too. 

I guess you could say that it's a shadow puppet show in canon, you
have to be looking to make the connection and realise that there are
blanks to be filled. To me the name Snivellus quite easily fills the
gap and animates in 3d this picture. James and Snape were hurting each
other... all the time... on and on and so forth. Snape was complaining
about it, and James wasn't. Snape was hitting James in the back of the
head and when they faced each other James and Sirius would go
overboard with toying with Snape while they had him helpless. Both
parties thought that they were the better than each other for their
behaviours, and it's up to you to decide what you believe about it. 

In my mind neither were behaving better than the other. But I do
defend James the Berk that he was not a pampered evil bully. The canon
doesn't support it. He was an idiot, a boofhead, a berk, but through
it all he didn't have a smooth ride of it, he was Snapes Guinea Pig
too, and he tried to deal with that as courageously as he could, he
didn't complain that it hurt or cry and bemoan his misfortune for
getting zapped with all of Sevvies latest Dark (or otherwise)
Creations. Like his son, he stood his ground (and a bit more which I
am not trying to justify please remember)and said he wouldn't take it
lying down. 

>Valky:
> > If any Snape lovers are still reading, this is the reason I have 
> > for believing that Snape can be redeemed again. For the first time 
> > ever in the series I did see tiny glimpses of him in HBP *finally* 
> > facing his own truth and walking the path he laid for himself 
> > bravely, like a man ready to open himself to this Agape - 
> > Judgement love.

>SSSusan:
>Can you tell me where you saw these glimpses?  Not challenging you;
>just want to know. :-)

Valky now:
Yeah I'd like to, but like I said it's glimpses so it will be slow to
compile fully. The basic gist of one part of it is that I saw Snape
trying to hide a changed attitude to Harry. I believe I know, and that
DD knew and found it amusing also, that Snape grew to respect and like
Harry Potter as much as he would preferred to have kept hating him, I
have a strong feeling that this thing that DD was taking for granted
according to Snape was that Harry was all the WW needed to vanquish
Voldemort and that Snape would help *Harry* and be loyal to *Harry*
with or without Dumbledore. DD smilingly knew Snape believed it in
spite of himself.

The canon that I base this all on is wide and varied, but I began on
it in my Human Snape posts and I will continue with it if I can find
the time. For now I'll just go on to the reason that I see this as
"facing his own truth and walking the path he laid for himself 
bravely, like a man ready to open himself to this Agape". 
Harry represents many of Snape's most frightening truths about
himself, that he has done wrong, that he is really Severus Snape - the
forever shamed accomplice to murder, and not Harry - the Great and
modest Hero of the WW. Not only does it pain hims to see James image
revered above him (James! the arrogant self-serving so and so..) but
also faced with Harry he's faced with the ugliest truth of all, that
his own choices were behind it, that he made this god awful choice to
serve Voldemort and clamp himself in the jaws of his own worst
nightmare. Up until recently, all Snapes facing of Harry, seemed to be
forced, and Snape seemed almost capable of any thing that would put
distance between them. In my interpretations of previous canon Snape
would have been happy to get Harry out of his life for good riddance.
 But in HBP I find it hard to believe that he still feels this way. He
seems to want to face Harry more than ever. I really should get some
canon shouldn't I.

COS Chapter five: "Well you're expelling us aren't you?" said Ron ...
... "Not today, Mr Weasley," said Dumbledore ..... .... Snape looked
as though Chrismas had been cancelled.  

HBP Chapter Two ".... I have done my utmost to have him thrown out of
Hogwarts. Where I believe he scarcely belongs. ..."

HBP Chapter Twenty-four                                              

                                          "Do you know what I think
Potter?" said Snape vey quietly. "I think you are a liar and a cheat
and that you deserve detention with me every Saturday until the end of
term. What do you think Potter?"

The news had travelled very fast: apparently Moaning Myrtle had taken
it upon herself to pop into every bathroom in the castle to tell the
story; Malfoy had already been visited in the hospital wing by Pansy
Parkinson, who lost no time in vilifying Harry far and wide, and Snape
had told the staff precisely what had happened: Harry had already been
aclled out of the common room to endure fifteen highly unpleasant
minutes in the company of Professor MacGonagall, who told him he was
lucky not to have been expelled...

So why the change of heart from Severus. He wasn't hiding the fact
that Harry had used the Dark Magic in the bathroom. If Snape told the
staff precisely what had happened according to Harry's POV then any
suspicions of Snapes incantation were in the open. He *wasn't* hiding
that. But he was acting differently, on this first ever _Sure as Eggs_
chance that he could get Harry expelled and out of his life for good,
he does the exact opposite. He plans to spend every weekend for the
rest of the school term sitting beside his worst nightmares incarnate.

Harry didn't stop being James' and Lily's son, and now more than ever
he is as famous and arrogant as Snape ever hated him for being. Yes
Harry is still all the things that Snape couldn't never stand facing.
And yet he throws his one opportunity to never look at him again, out
the window in place of the opportunity to spend more time with him
than he would ever need to. Why? 

My personal take is as above. Snape is facing himself. Finally going
beyond the barricade he had placed around himself to shelter him from
the agape love that could forgive him for all he had done if he could
just face it, to become curious about the power and the freedom of the
truth. 

A lot longer an answer than I intended, I hope that you get the gist
of what I am saying about that.

Now I must jump threads to another topic. Thanks for the Questions
SSSusan :D

Valky