Paradox of Time Travel in PoA - Before & After

[allies426]

No: HPFGUIDX 137351

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Collins" 
<sandra87b at y...> wrote:


> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "davenclaw" 
> <daveshardell at y...> wrote:
> > > > 
> Tell me again how the future happens before the  past?
> > 
> > 
> > - davenclaw
> 
> Sandra writes:
> Thank you a million times over Davenclaw, you eloquently make 
> the point, and also the essential one being that JKR didn't allow 
> any consideration for what happened BEFORE Harry and 
> Hermione went time travelling. There was the original timeline, 
> which is the one where no seeds were chucked at the original 
> Harry (and flowerpot) at Buckbeak's, there was also a series of 
> events where no patronus charged to Harry's rescue, and there 
> was also a series of unfortunate incidents involving Sirius - all 
> on the original timeline. I'm amazed people are still having 
> difficulty with this, just because JKR chose to ignore it. 

<<snip>>

I, too, have a lot of trouble understanding what happened before 
they went back in time and wonder why so many people don't have a 
problem with it.  For me, really, there's only one big unresolved 
question:  WHO CAST THE FIRST PATRONUS?

Harry, Hermione, and Sirius collapse on the beach, surrounded by 
Dementors.  SOMEBODY CASTS A PATRONUS AND SAVES THEM.  If this event 
did not occur, Harry would be dead, therefore unable to go back in 
time and save them all.  I do not buy for one second the theory 
that "it only happened once, it was Harry all along" - because if it 
only happened once, THERE IS NO TIME TRAVEL!!!  (There's a big "it 
only happened once" essay on the HP Lexicon that I do not believe.)  
This topic really annoys me because it's such a huge plot hole and 
I'm afraid that if there is more time travel in HP7, I'm going to be 
left very frustrated with the conclusion of the series.

I suppose I can create a scenario in my head where somebody just 
happened to be on the other side of the lake, or maybe Snape came 
out of his faint and cast the charm, thereby saving H/Hr/Siruius the 
first time.  Then, when they go time travelling, Harry saves them, 
causing Harry-from-the-past to think his dad saved them.  Still a 
plot hole (where is the first person to cast the charm now, when 
Harry does it?), but less of one than before.

Or, if nobody cast a Patronus the first time, how did they survive?  
Wait, I know, Dumbeldore, from his office, has to send Snape the 
urgent message that Sirius is innocent, so he uses his Patronus as a 
messenger, coincidentally saving them all!!!  (I am *so* kidding 
about that...)

I posted on this topic a long time ago and only got the "it only 
happened once" answer in reply, very unsatisfying.  Does anyone have 
any other ideas??  Have any been posted already that I haven't 
seen?  Who saved them the first time around???

Allie