Harry as a natural legilimens Was Re: GH in Harry's memory

[Richard]

No: HPFGUIDX 137404

<saraquel_omphale at y...> wrote:
<snip>
> OotP (UK ed p468)
<snip>
> "You have no subtlety, Potter," said Snape 
."You do not
> understand fine distinctions
.The mind is not a book, to
> be opened at will and examined at leisure.  Thoughts are
> not etched on the inside of skulls, to be perused by any
> invader.  The mind is a complex and many-layered thing,
> Potter 
It is true however, that those who have mastered
> Legilimency are able, under certain conditions, to delve 
> into the minds of their victims and to interpret their
> findings correctly."
> 
> Then later on p469 Snape says "The evidence suggests that
> at times, when your mind is most relaxed and vulnerable –
> when you are asleep for instance – you are sharing the
> Dark Lord's thoughts and emotions." <snip> (Harry) "I saw
> the snake attack Mr Weasly." 
> (Snape)"the vision you had shortly before Christmas re-
> presented such a powerful *incursion* upon the Dark Lord's
> thoughts."
<snip> 
> 2) I think that one of the powers which Voldemort trans-
> ferred to Harry is Legilimency.  Harry is a natural legil-
> imens.  The above quote indicates to me that Snape is try-
> ing hard (and I've snipped bits which explain how careful
> Snape is in his explanation!) not to let Harry realise
> this. Snape eventually uses the word *incursion* which to
> me implies that it was Harry delving into Voldemort's mind 
> not Voldemort delving into Harry's, that we are dealing
> with here. 
> Later, when Harry manages to bounce Snape's Legilimency
> spell, Harry easily accesses Snape's head, and manages to
> interpret, very easily what is going on in there. A real
> natural.
>  
> If true, this raises some questions:
> Presumably DD realises that Harry is a Legilimens and the
> danger of seeing what's in Voldemort's mind is many layer-
> ed.  DD later says to Harry in HBP, that he is amazed
> (paraphrasing wildly here) that Harry, with such access
> as he has to Voldemort's mind hasn't been turned to the
> dark arts.  So, I think, it is not only to protect 
> Harry from Voldemort's cruelty and to protect Order Secrets
> that DD wants Harry to learn Occlumency.  (Mind you, if
> DD had thought about it for even half a second, he would
> have known that Harry would make a hopeless Occlumens.)
> But in order to protect Harry from temptation.
<snip>
> Harry, Voldemort and legilimency. OOOhhhhh the possibilities
> for the future in that one.  How about the final showdown
> being a lot to do with minds and not much to do with bodies?
> OK here's a theory (I've posted a bit of it before, but now
> I'll expand more) which takes into account DD's *gleam*
> (this bit's for you Valky!), blood and the power of love.
> 
> In the final showdown Harry and Voldemort lock minds,
> Voldemort intent on probing Harry's emotional weaknesses
> and Harry intent on probing Voldemort's fears.  Let's put
> them either in the Room of Love at the MOM (a favourite
> theory of mine which I'm reluctant to let go of) or if
> not there, then Harry at least has been into the Room of
> Love and can make a connection to it.  Now Voldemort has 
> some of Harry's blood in him.  Blood, I think, is where
> emotion lies.  Voldemort is very snake-like physically,
> therefore cold blooded and vulnerable to being burnt by
> the heat of passionate emotion, such as Love.  Harry, who
> by this time has realised the *Power* of Love that DD has
> been talking about, uses the access he has to Voldemort's
> mind to channel this love into Voldemort and into his
> blood, Voldemort's blood boils and hey presto – dead
> Voldemort.  This is why DD had the gleam in his eye,
> because Harry's blood is full of love, and therefore
> has the potential to destroy Voldemort from the inside. 
> Ok, so where's the cannon support for all this.  Yes well,
> dream on Saraquel!

I've thought we were headed in the direction of Harry being a decent 
legilimens since the discussion you cited above.  In HBP, though, I 
think we have a hint as to what use that ability might be put to: 
finding horcruxes.

We "know" that Voldemort stopped trying to explore Harry's mind 
because he discovered that the process was not a one-way affair 
(Snape's and Dumbledore's hypotheses).  But, would Voldemort be able 
to stop Harry if Harry explicitly and deliberately tries to probe 
his rather twisted mind for information about horcruxes?  Does the 
termination of contact by Voldemort post-Battle of the MoM represent 
active Occlumency by Voldemort?  Or is it simply that he learned 
that it is painful and dangerous to even look, and thus stopped?

JKR has to lead us through the discovery and destruction of at least 
four horcruxes, plus a climactic battle, and post-story life stories 
in a single volume.  It took Dumbledore years to get to discover 
what he had, and it cost him his life (yes, through being weakened 
by the events up through the return to Hogwarts, he was volnerable, 
and thus was killed) to see to the destruction of just one and the 
discovery of a faux horcrux.  We do have Dumbledore in the form of 
his portrait, which means that not all of what he learned has been 
lost, but we still have a great deal of research, search and such to 
go through in order to destroy those horcruxes.  Harry probing 
Voldemort's mind -- discretely, cautiously, slowly -- would 
certainly speed this process, and might be accomplished with no more 
awareness on Voldemort's part than thinking he is recalling past 
victories.

This would require that someone help Harry discover that he has the 
potential to do this, and teach him how to do it so as not to be 
discovered.  Again, we have Dumbledore's portrait, so if Dumbledore 
knew or strongly suspected this possibility existed, we don't have 
to go through a long plot development to arrive at it.  The portrait 
would not likely be a good teacher of the skill in actual practice, 
but would still be able to direct Harry to a suitable teacher.

Personally, I don't believe Harry has really left Hogwarts 
permanently.  It is too great a resource for him not to use it, its 
library, its faculty, in both defense of his person and in learning 
what he must in order to accomplish his task.  If nothing else, he 
will almost certainly need to ask Dumbledore's portrait a few 
questions in order to verify certain facts, and perhaps to get some 
advice regarding how to approach some problem or problems.  I can 
see Minerva as head mistress offering Harry the run of the school 
and grounds, and living with Hagrid, or in an apartment ordinarily 
reserved for visitors.  (He could also be at 12 Grimauld Place, 
since he owns it, but I don't see Harry as that reclusive: he would 
be in contact with members of the Order, but I don't see the 
Weasleys and the Grangers easily letting their Ron and Hermione give 
up school in order to participate in a very dangerous quest, and 
these (plus Ginny) are Harry's only real friends.  He also might end 
up at the Weasley's, or with Geord and Frege, but both would tend to 
be uncomfortable in a number of ways.)

I also don't see Harry and Ginny completely seperated for the 
duration.  There is a wedding to attend, and now that Mr. Weasley 
has said that "half" the family owes their lives to Harry, I can't 
see either Weasley parent raising serious objections to Harry and 
Ginny spending some time together and in privacy.  (I don't think 
this means sex, but I also don't think Ginny is going to give up on 
Harry.  She is, in a sense, the "fourth musketeer," whether Harry 
likes it or not, and with special interest in Harry.  The fact that 
these two are an item is already known to Voldemort through Snape, 
Malfoy and any number of other sources, including tales of Harry's 
rescue of Ginny in CoS, so the current parting does not, to me, make 
Ginny any safer than as Harry's active, avowed and present love 
interest.)

But, back to the point, Harry the legilimens of Voldemort's worst 
fears (It would be an exceedingly good thing for Harry to be able to 
anticipate Voldemort's moves!) makes sense from a number of 
perspectives, not all of which will I mention because I'm confident 
I can't think of them all.  Further discussion of these point should 
be interesting, so I hope there is some.  But, in the end, it is 
JKR's story ... It will play out as she chooses.

Richard, who has always had a thing for red-heads, and so hopes 
Harry doesn't have to lose "his."