Petunia and love for Lily? NOT

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 137453

I'm responding to several different posts here: jujube, 
hickengruendler and Cheryl.

jujube:
> Marvolo is many horrible things, but the things he tells us in the 
> scene we see are true:  he is the descendant of Salazar Slytherin, 
> that is the ring of Slytherin and that is the Slytherin locket.  
> Should we doubt his characterization of his daughter?
> 
> Also, the Lexicon says Squibs have "such a low level of magical
> power that they are essentially unable to do any magic at
> all."  "A low level of magical power" is not the same as no
> magical power at atll.  While Merope does do some magic, it is
> completely useless magic, and probably the little she can do is a
> function of the extremely powerful wizarding skills that are in 
> her family (for I believe Marvolo and Morfin, as disgusting as
> they are, are powerful wizards).

Jen: I snipped to this point, jujube, because I think we could 
probably split hairs arguing the other points without making any 
headway. I've re-read the quote from JKR several times now and *do* 
see your interpretation, if you view all of JKR's answer as being 
connected to the question. I view her answer as a two-part thing, 
the first line "No, is the answer" as the answer to the actual 
question, and the rest an extrapolation on the subject of developing 
powers later in life. The "quite late in life" part continues to 
trip me up for identifying Merope as the late-bloomer. Even 
considering magical age and not chronological, 20 does not 
seem 'quite late in life' to me, and I can't shake that perception.

This is a new thought on Marvolo, though, and you won't be surprised 
I read his character very differently, and probably the entire scene.

First, Dumbledore had this to say about Merope: "I think you are 
forgetting," said Dumbledore, "that Merope was a witch." (chap. 10, 
p. 213, US). As JKR's mouthpiece, that's probably the most salient 
canon point of how we should view Merope. 

You stated we should believe Marvolo's assessment of Merope as a 
Squib because although he shows many faults, he hasn't proven 
himself to be a liar. That's very true. And I don't think he's 
*lying* when he says his opinion is that Merope is a Squib. He's 
obviously extremely attached to his Slytherin heritage and 
artifacts, more than his daughter anyway, and all of the 'truths' he 
mentions are verifiable facts except for the one opinion in the mix--
Merope's magical power. Either he is completely blind to the fact 
that his threats and verbal abuse are the primary cause of his 
daughter's diminished powers, or he doesn't really care and gets 
satisfaction out of bullying her. Either way, we can't verify from 
Marvolo's words and Merope's one act of magic that she is, without 
question, a Squib. So I think Merope has always been a witch, albeit 
one with diminished powers due to circumstance.

I'm certain Marvolo convinced *Merope* she was a Squib, though. 
Which makes her bid for power when he's carted off to Azkaban all 
the more satisfying because she proves to herself that her father's 
opinions were just that and nothing more.  

jujube:
> Merope's real magic is, IMO, the true turning point of the long
> story we are told in this series, and once I read HBP I just had a
> gut feeling (the same kind of feeling I did when I figured out
> Voldemort's plan for the Horcruxes [although, of course, I didn't
> know they would be called that. ;-)]) that that quote referred to
> Merope.

Jen: I'm all for gut feelings! I respect this site's request that 
all posts be attached to canon, and try to always provide quotes and 
other backing documentation. But there's room for flights of fancy 
and gut feelings for *all* of us here, I think. 


hickengruendler:
> I don't think that JKR's "but" after her answer about Petunia 
> indicates that Petunia is the one, who performed magic late in
> life. I think with "but" she meant that Petunia is a muggle, but
> her situation is comparable to that of a Squib, since she, too,
> has background information about the wizarding world, without
> being able to be a part of it.

Jen: Thank you! I've been wondering about that 'but' all week and 
your answer rings true for me. 

Cheryl:
> 1.  I think the "awful boy" may have been Snape.  Lily refers to 
> James as "that Potter."....
> 2.  If the awful boy was Snape, it would likely mean that Lily and 
> Snape spent some time together outside of school where nosy 
> Petunia could have listened in on their conversation.
> 3.  Lily and Petunia's parents were Muggles, so they had a Muggle 
> upbringing.  Snape's house is in a Muggle village, and his father 
> was a Muggle.  Is it possible that Lily and Snape were childhood 
> friends, and that she is the girl laughing at the boy on the
> bucking broomstick in Snape's memories?

Jen: I'm leaning toward your #1 & 2 Cheryl. If Lily ever brought 
James home, and we know they didn't start dating until the seventh 
year (Lupin in OOTP), then he was a man for all intents and 
purposes. Who knows if Petunia ever met James directly, anyway? 
Unless I'm forgetting something, we don't know if Petunia was the 
oldest, if she left home before Lily, if she went to the Potter's 
wedding, etc. Her one quote: "Then she met Potter at school and they 
left and got married and had you..." (PS, chap. 4, p. 53) doesn't 
tell us if the two met directly.

Your #3 is appealing, that Lily and Snape were childhood friends. 
It's hard to believe Harry wouldn't recognize Lily as a child in the 
Pensieve, but he never verified that the little boy was Snape, 
either. *Sigh* I'm resigned to the fact that JKR artfully covers her 
plot twists by giving Harry brain blips. Not mentioning who he 
thinks these children are in the Pensieve is one example. Another is 
not mentioning if there was a Slyterhin mark on the locket at 12 GP. 
I'm certain there are others but those are two off the top of my 
head.

Jen