[HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore and Snape again/ Argument in the Forest again.

[Kathryn Jones]

No: HPFGUIDX 137556

dumbledore11214 wrote:
> Alla:
> 
> Erm... Lupinlore's scenarios may  be less logical for you, to each
> their own of course, but to me they make much MORE sense and much
> more consistent with internal logic  of Potterverse ( just my
> opinion of course) than Dumbledore  asking Snape in advance to kill
> him, while increasing Hary's hatred of Snape many times more and
> expecting Harry to trust Snape to help him save the day when moment
> comes)
> 
> The main reason of course would be as others stated that it is
> Harry's story and he is supposed  to play the main role at the end,
> not Superspy saving the day.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I CAN see scenarios of Snape being good , but
> making a horrible choice to kill DD, because Snape thinks he can
> help a good guys this way, or saving Draco, etc( Severely Siguine's
> essay being the best example), BUT in all those scenarious I don't
> see Dumbledore asking Snape to kill him ( at least not in advance).
> 
> Whatever was in Snape head at the Tower, I don't see JKR let him get
> away with murder, I just don't.
> 
> As always, I am prepared to eat a nice crow. :-)
   Alla

Kathy writes:

       I agree to some extent, but throught the books a theme of 
self-sacrifice has been consistent. Lily sacrificing her life for Harry, 
Ron being willing to sacrifice his to help Harry protect the stone, 
Harry risking his life to return Cedric's body.
       If Dumbledore has been watching Voldemort, figuring out what he's 
doing and getting his ducks in order for twenty years, give or take, he 
has made some fairly definite plans. Trelawny has been hidden at 
Hogwarts for sixteen years, and Snape for fifteen years. Harry has been 
stashed at Dursleys where he can keep an eye on him. Dumbledore has been 
hunting horcruxes for years, he just didn't know for sure how many to hunt.
       Considering his age, Dumbledore must have known that he could die 
at any time. He must have made plans for that as well. If as some 
posters suspect, he was slowly dying from the hexes protecting the ring, 
he would already have made plans. He undoubtedly knew the potion would 
kill him if he drank it. He checked it out, he tried to avoid it, but 
when it came down to it he drank it anyway. He may have thought that he 
would have time to explain a few more things to Harry in the time he had 
left, but Draco screwed it up.
        I think that Dumbledore gave Snape instructions to use his death 
to gain more influence with the Death Eaters, which is not the same 
thing as orders or plans to have Snape kill him. When Snape arrived on 
the tower, if legilimency was involved, it would have been Dumbledore 
saying "I'm dying, finish it, do as I asked" Any other prior 
instructions about what was expected of Snape once he was in a position 
of trust with Voldemort, we do not know.
        Dumbledore knows people. He knew Voldemort was worth watching 
when he was eleven years old. I think we are shown this perception he 
has of wrongness to show us that he is not wrong about Snape. We are 
perhaps not being asked to believe that Snape is "good." Perhaps his 
final role is not what we would call "good." No other character in the 
books could have killed Dumbledore, even under orders. Perhaps at the 
end of the seventh book, Harry, having killed Voldemort, feels the 
portion of Voldemort's soul stir to life in him. I believe that Harry 
would sacrifice his own life to destroy Voldemort. No other character in 
the book could be trusted to take Harry's life, if necessary, even under 
orders. Perhaps Snape's only redemption is to do evil in the cause of 
the right. Harry would end up a dead hero, and Snape would end up a dead 
villain, and Voldemort would end up the lord who never returned.
KJ
Throwing out an off-the-wall theory