[HPforGrownups] Dumbledore and murder

[Sherry Gomes]

No: HPFGUIDX 137999

Adam said:

Several posters have been making the claim that Snape is evil and the 
proof is *drumroll* he murdered DD!!  They go on to say, or at least 
imply, that DD would not ask to be murdered and, in fact, is against 
murder, and that committing murder makes someone absolutely evil.  I 
feel compelled to post my thoughts on this:


Sherry now:

As I'm one of the posters who believe that Dumbledore would absolutely not
ask someone to commit murder, I'll take you up on this.  
Perhaps, someone else who responds can quote canon, which is difficult when
you've only got audio versions to work with.

First of all, aren't we told by Dumbledore in HBP, that the act of murder
splits the soul?  I got the impression Dumbledore considered it a very evil
thing indeed.  Remember, that's the first step to creating a horcrux, not a
horcrux itself yet.


Adam
1.  DD would not ask to be murdered.
    How to we know that?  I have no evidence one way or another.


Sherry
With all that Dumbledore says in HBP concerning the damage to the soul by
the act of murder, my interpretation of his character is that he would never
ask someone to commit murder.  It seemed that Dumbledore considered it a
truly terrible thing and he placed a lot of importance on that soul damage.
In particular, Snape must have an already damaged soul, and I can't imagine
him asking Snape to commit such an act on his behalf.  


Adam
2.  DD is against murder.
    Really?  What has been asking/preparing Harry for all these 
years?  The final tea party with Riddle so that Harry can convince 
him to be a good little boy and then they ride off into the sunset 
together? No.  DD has been preparing Harry for the final battle with 
Voldy in order for Harry to kill or attempt to kill him.  DD has even 
been giving direct assistance in destroying Marvolo's ring, searching 
for Horcruxes, etc. so that it will be easier for Harry to 
presumably "finish off" ol' V-Mort.  This tells me that DD recognizes 
that murder IS acceptable in some circumstances and it would, 
therefore, not be a stretch to think DD would consider the 
circumstance of "that" night do be one in which murder would be 
acceptable.


Sherry
Ok, there is the difference that war and law enforcement and self defense
are excuses that free people of guilt in the eyes of the law, fi they kill
another person.  Of course, providing that a law enforcement officer was
acting within his rights.  And remember, Moody, an auror, tried not to use
unforgivable curses in his job, even after the ministry allowed aurors to do
so.  However, before you say, aha, this is war, I can't think of any time in
history, when a soldier was allowed to kill his own general and got away
with it.  

Neither do I think Harry will be doing something as simple as pulling out
his wand and shouting the killing curse to defeat Voldemort.


Adam
3.  Murder make someone evil, therefore Snape is evil.
    I will be looking for the same folks to post that Harry is ESE! 
if it turns out that he murders Voldy.  The standards cannot change 
just because the murderer is someone we like and the victim is 
someone we don't like.  Murder is murder and a murderer is a murderer 
whether is be Harry or Snape.  It may turn out that Harry will not 
murder Voldy, but there is that chance, so we should be ready to 
assign the ESE tag to Harry if it does transpire.  


Sherry
Again, I refer you to the comments Dumbledore makes about what the act of
murder does to a person's soul.  And if Harry does indeed kill Voldemort,
this time it will be an act of war, a soldier killing the enemy general.
Perfectly acceptable in wartime.  i realize you may consider this a
difference that isn't really much, but how else could soldiers live with
themselves after war?  And again, I don't expect JKR to do something as
simple as Harry murdering Voldemort.  Whatever he does to vanquish the
enemy, i expect her to do something quite different.  Otherwise, what on
earth has she been writing about all this time?  Unlike some others who
believe Snape is evil, I don't want Harry to kill anyone, not even Snape.
But I expect Harry to defeat Voldemort in some way.

The difference for me is that if whatever he does ends up in the final
demise of Voldemort, Harry is simply doing his duty as the only soldier who
can accomplish this.  But Snape, purposely killing Dumbledore was an act of
murder.  He killed his own general, and more than that, the one person who
had believed in him and trusted him.  I see the two as very big differences.
In the RW, no matter what the reason or secret plan, Snape would be court
martialed for such a thing, whereas Harry would not.


Adam, who cannot see evil in what Snape did, try as he might

Sherry, who cannot see good in what Snape did, try as she might.  Sigh.