The best reason for Dumbledore to trust Snape (Dark Art attraction?)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 138031

> >>Valky:
> I think to the necessary point, we agree. Take into account DD's
> prodigious skill and intellect, Snape's wit and genius, and the
> differences and similarities between Tom, Snape and DD, we can
> probably conclude that DD trusts Snape *because* he knows him well
> enough.
> <snip>  

Betsy Hp:
Yes, on this I agree, we do agree.  Agreed? <EG>  (Sorry, couldn't 
help myself.)

> >>Valky:
> <snip>
> Basically what I am saying is that DD *knows* something about     
> Snapes regard for James, he says it's *not* the same thing as     
> Sirius and Kreacher. BUT hang about, it does darn well look like   
> it is!
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I think there *is* a difference in the level of contempt.  Sirius 
was quite sure Kreacher presented no threat.  His contempt was 
complete.  Snape certainly thought James was a waste of space (who 
failed to protect his lady love?) and had a certain amount of 
contempt for him, but there was a level of respect there too.  Snape 
did see that James could present a threat to him.  As soon as James 
calls out in Snape's memory, Snape *moves*.  He arms himself 
*immediately*.  Or tries to anyway.  And I don't think it's just 
because James tended to attack with a pack behind him (per Snape 
anyway).  I have a feeling that if the two faced each other in an 
honest duel it be an interesting fight.  And I think Snape 
recognized this.  Sirus didn't see that at all about Kreacher.  It's 
why his guard was down, I think.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > I don't recall anything that suggested that Snape's respect was  
> > somehow *unhealthy*.
 
> >>Valky:
> ???? What about the gruesome pictures on the wall clearly          
> *glorifying* this superior power? 

Betsy Hp:
Glorifying?  They were certainly dramatic. (And Snape is all about 
the drama.)  But I don't recall Snape going into some riff about how 
this power is so awsome and superior the students shouldn't even 
bother trying to fight it.  Was Harry "glorifying" Voldemort when he 
spoke about him?

> >>Valky:
> And what about JKR's comments that DD deliberately keeps Snape    
> from the Dark Arts to avoid 'bringing out the worst in him' ?

Betsy Hp:
Isn't it rather obvious that she was speaking in a circular manner 
about the jinx on the job?  She couldn't give away that the curse 
was real, but certainly, if Snape *was* given the job, that would be 
the last year he taught at Hogwarts, whatever happened.  Isn't it 
the curse that brings out the "worst" in whomever is unlucky enough 
to be teaching that year? (Carol has an interesting post on this:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/137961  )

> >>Valky: 
> Yes I'll stick to my guns on this one, Snapes respect for the     
> power is *not* the same healthy respect that Harry has. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I think I'm going to continue with the thought that Snape actually 
has a *healthier* outlook than Harry on the dark arts.  It's Harry 
who emotionally reaches for dark magic when he's upset.  Snape seems 
to have grown out of it.  But we can certainly disagree. :)
 
> >>Valky:
> <snip>
> The mystery of Snape is and always has been about who he *really* 
> is, and this particular matter of Harry's internal friendship with 
> the HBP is crucial to that.
> <snip> 
> I think that Harry and the Young HBP have a friendship, while     
> Snape and Harry have a very personal vendetta. These things havent 
> really met up within Harry yet, but I do wonder what will happen   
> when they do.

Betsy Hp:
I'm fascinated with this dichotomy!  And I really wonder how it will 
all come together in the end.  Especially when you consider the many 
hints that Harry is a bit more like Lily than James and the hints 
that Lily may well have been friends with young Severus.

> >>Valky:
> <snip> 
> I am saying that the older students were the leaders so
> Snape did mostly what they told him to do, which probably kept him
> generally out of strife. It was after they all had left Hogwarts   
> and Snape was alone that he ventured out in the night after Lupin 
> and almost got himself killed. This is what I mean by the kind of 
> trouble Snape gets himself in left to his own devices. I am saying 
> that DD kept his little bird Snape in a "moral" prison, locked him 
> up just like Sirius and Harry and to anyone else he knew was in   
> for certain death if he didn't. Snape left to his own devices     
> would simply get himself killed. 

Betsy Hp:
Oooh, I *totally* disagree here.  You cannot have a spy that you 
don't trust to handle themselves while on their own.  I think that's 
a basic principle.  Because things so often change out in the field 
and if Snape couldn't think for himself, couldn't make good 
decisions for himself and the Order then he'd be worse than useless 
to Dumbledore.  Especially a spy of his caliber.  He wasn't just an 
informant.  He actively worked against Voldemort while appearing to 
support him.

I'd also add that if the Slytherin gang had really left Snape to his 
own devices Snape may never have been recruited by Voldemort.  
(Total canonless guess on my part, but I really think Snape was 
actively recruited.)
 
> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Are you talking the first time around, or the second? Because I'm
> > not sure if young Snape *was* a most favored servant the first  
> > time around. I think he was seen as highly talented, but not    
> > necessarily most favored.

> >>Valky:
> I am talking about the first time, and yes I do think Snape was   
> close enough to LV's favourite at this time, the point being that 
> in any case, he stopped giving Snape orders and sent him out to   
> work under almost his own volition as a spy. This is when Snape   
> found himself doing his worst again and taking the Prophecy back  
> to Voldemort, the one thing he really regrets according to DD.

Betsy Hp:
It seemed more to me that Snape was following a specific task laid 
out by Voldemort: get a job at Hogwarts.  Trelawney spoke of Snape 
as a pushy young man in search of a job.  I didn't get the 
impression that Snape was going on his own devices at all.

> >>Valky:
> Ok good arguments all, but this is how I see it to answer them.   
> First I think Snape had secured the DADA job before the Spinners  
> End Chapter, which you apparently agree with by saying that you   
> think it was the curse at work. So hereby we are seeing Snape the 
> DADA teacher in Spinners End, not Snape the potions master.

Betsy Hp:
Yes, I'm in total agreement here. 

> >>Valky: 
> Now I see that you disgree with me already that Snape was         
> attracted to the UV in an unhealthy way, but I do believe that    
> there was definitely an element of him being *tempted* into it by 
> his having been free to his own devices. For a start he *lies*    
> outright to Narcissa that he could be staying on at Hogwarts after 
> being the DADA teacher, unless Voldie *lifted* the curse for him?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Does Voldemort already know that Snape will be getting the DADA 
job?  Somehow I doubt it.  Dumbledore is only at this moment working 
on recruiting Slughorn to replace Snape.  I don't think Snape would 
tip off Voldemort about Dumbledore's plans.  So yes Snape lied to 
Narcissa (because I *do* think Snape knew about the curse) but he 
was doing so to cover for Dumbledore.  I don't think Narcissa 
realized she was speaking to Snape the DADA professor.

> >>Valky:
> This riddle is deeper than it first seems, Snape taking the
> Unbreakable Vow strictly because the curse is at work on him has no
> less a problem than Snape doing it because he was tempted into    
> getting involved in a battle of Dark Arts.

Betsy Hp:
Well, yes, whatever the reason the Unbreakable Vow puts Snape in an 
awkward position to say the least.  But I think motive is important 
here (as it generally is when it comes to Snape <g>) because if 
Snape took the Vow out of some macho need to test the boundries of 
some dark art, well he's quite a fool.  But if the Vow, or more 
specifically, the last part of the Vow is the manifestation of the 
DADA curse then Snape's more of a victim here.  And if Snape took 
the Vow to give himself room to help Draco (as I currently believe) 
then it's almost the opposite of an unhealthy interest in the dark 
arts that's motivating him.  It's a form of love, which is a good 
thing, really.

Betsy Hp