The DADA jinx and its victims (Was:The best reason for Dumbledore to trust

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 138115

Valky wrote:
<huge snips>
> 
> Carol earlier:
> > What I was getting at though, is that the DADA curse works 
> > Voldemort's will, consciously or unconsciously. In almost all
cases (Umbridge's and Lockhart's are the weakest for 
> > the theory) the DADA teachers are somehow linked to Voldemort
and/or their fall benefits him. Quirrell's connection is obvious, as
is Crouch!Moody's. Lockhart is  supposedly on his way to deal with the
basilisk when the DADA curse strikes. Even Umbridge, my weakest
example, is linked to Voldemort  by the Dementors she sends after
Harry and the Crucio she tries to cast on him. Lupin's fall releases
Wormtail and Snape's fall kills Dumbledore, both clear advantages for
Voldemort regardless of the will of the DADA teacher involved. 
> 
> 
> Valky:
> Yeah wow, when you put it that way. <g> 
<snip> I like the notion that you propose Carol, that when the DADA
teacher falls it is to Voldies benefit. It works quite well for all
the teachers, except maybe for Crouch  <snip>

Carol responds:
I just realized that Crouch!Moody is not the teacher Dumbledore hired,
which may be the way around that apparent exception to the rule.
Clearly the real Moody's fall (being placed in his own trunk as the
result of his paranoia backfiring) is to Voldemort's advantage, as is
having Crouch!Moody in his place. I suppose Voldemort didn't care that
Crouch!Moody would be revealed and destroyed by the DADA curse. He
intended simply to use him and discard him. His advantage occurred
through the curse falling on the real Alastor Moody. (Obviously the
explanation isn't perfect and some examples work better than others,
but I think the general pattern of the DADA curse working the will of
Voldemort is clear, and he cares no more about his supporters than his
enemies once they've worked his will.)

Valky:
> So what then when it comes time for Harry's sixth year DADA teacher?
> Why would he [Dumbledore?] choose Snape <snip> ? If Dumbledore has
trusted Severus all these years, then why? Snape has always been
> available for the DADA job, which would imply, if we assume the
above, that Snape was always capable of removing DD from the
Headmasters role, someway. I have really talked my way into a corner
here, <snip>

Carol responds:
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here, but I think you're asking
why DD would offer Snape the position when he knew full well who had
placed the curse and the dangers it would pose to his most trusted and
most able helper, Severus Snape. (If that's not what you mean, please
repose the question and I'll try again.)

The way I see it is that Dumbledore protected Snape from the DADA
curse as long as he could, but when his need for Snape's expertise at
DADA coincided with his need for Horace Slughorn (who couldn't be made
DADA teacher without being betrayed by his own secret and perhaps
falling into Voldie's hands), he either offered Snape the DADA
position, possibly reminding him of the jinx and giving him the
choice, or he accepted Snape's application for the post (reminding him
of his danger), which again would be Snape's choice. If, on the other
hand, DD insisted on Snape's taking the position, he would be playing
into Voldemort's hands and forcing Snape into the very risky position
he had protected him from for fifteen years. I don't think DD would do
that given the emphasis he places on choice. They could not have
entered blindly into a contract that they knew would mean the end of
their relationship as teacher and headmaster and which they knew
presented terrible dangers for Snape if not for both.

Voldemort's advantage in having Snape as DADA teacher is clear,
whether he's consciously directing the curse or letting it work his
will without direction, which I think is the case. He wants Snape to
kill Dumbledore, which might be why he ordered young Severus to apply
for the job in the first place, though he only told him he was sending
him to Hogwarts as a spy. LV knew the curse would act to his own
advantage and Severus's undoing, and he wouldn't care about the
consequences to his servant once he had "done the deed." Nothing of
the sort happened, of course, because Dumbledore hired Snape as
Potions Master and Voldemort himself was vaporized a mere two months
later. (We don't know what happened to the unfortunate person who was
hired as DADA teacher in his stead.)

The problem seems to be Snape himself (naturally). I think he
continually applied for the position as part of his cover in case LV
returned, knowing that he wouldn't be hired because DD was protecting
him from the jinx (and from himself). But the question is why he
accepted it once it was actually available to him. Did he see it as
his just reward for fifteen years of loyalty to Dumbledore? Surely
not. He was well aware of the grim fates of his predecessors,
particularly those loyal to Voldemort (ironically, the only ones who
died or were utterly destroyed). I don't think either he or Dumbledore
knew that the curse would work Voldemort's will (surely if DD knew
that, he'd have stopped teaching hiring DADA teachers long before),
but both of them certainly knew that it could result in his death or
some other disastrous consequence. Maybe Snape felt that he had no
choice; Dumbledore needed him to take that position and the time had
come to accept it. Maybe he felt that he and Dumbledore working
together could overcome the jinx given their combined intellect and
power. 

Even after he saw the form the jinx (or curse) had taken, the third
provision of the Unbreakable Vow, he must have had some hope that he
would not have to murder Dumbledore. He certainly didn't rush in to
kill him when they were alone together or push Draco into doing it. He
seems to have done the best he could to simultaneously thwart and
protect Draco, knowing that Dumbledore would not allow himself to be
alone with the boy and trusting to the protections against Death
Eaters that Dumbledore had placed on the school. We know he didn't
know about the linked vanishing cabinets, and IMO he could not have
anticipated that Dumbledore the Death Eaters would enter the school
just at the point when Dumbledore most needed his skill at countering
Dark Curses. When he reaches the top of the stairs, he sees that the
pieces have all fallen into place. He can't try to save Dumbledore
without being killed by the DEs or the vow. He can either keep the
vow, saving Draco and himself but killing Dumbledore, or all three of
them will die. He makes, for whatever reason, the choice that seems
better to him, but there is no good choice.

Either way, Voldemort benefits from Snape's inevitable fall to the
DADA curse (which I believe has been working his will without his
conscious control) because Dumbledore dies. Given the rather pathetic
selection of Death Eaters he still has on hand, he also seems to
benefit from Snape's choice to act (note "act," a word used with
reference to Snape by both Harry and Snape himself in HBP) as a loyal
Death Eater with the capacity to direct and control the others, an
able second in command to replace the disgraced Lucius Malfoy. But
maybe, just maybe, Voldemort has made a grave error in judgment and
the curse he placed on the DADA position so many years before will
rebound on him like the AK he cast on Harry at Godric's Hollow. "Oft
evil will evil mars." (Oops. Wrong book.)

Carol, realizing she should have said "agency" or "instrument" rather
than "agent" in the original post in this thread