Slughorn makes me uneasy

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 138232

> >>Del:
> I know Fenrir Greyback is a direct metaphor for pedophiles, but
> personally it's Slughorn that makes me hugely uneasy sometimes. I
> believe that JKR purposely depicted him in a way reminiscent of RL
> pedophiles so as to make us be wary of him.
> <snip of examples>

Betsy Hp:
I picked up a certain vibe myself, though I didn't connect it with 
pedophilia.  For one, Harry is hardly a young child, nor are the 
students and former students Slughorn surrounds himself with.  
However, I certainly saw a bit of courtship in the way Slughorn 
tried to woo Harry into his club, and bit of hard-to-get coyness in 
Harry's refusal to attend.  Harry enjoys the attention, it seems, 
and doesn't want to reveal the half-blood Prince as the source of 
his potion skills because he wants to *keep* that attention.

What is very interesting, to me, is the reversal that occurs when 
Harry goes after the horcrux memory.  Suddenly Harry is doing the 
wooing and it's Slughorn's turn to play coy.  (And how interesting 
that Harry plies Slughorn with drink to get what he wants.)

> >>Del:
> Don't get me wrong: I am NOT saying that Slughorn IS a pedophile. 
> That would be pointless and out of place in a HP book. Slughorn is 
> no more a pedophile than Fenrir Greyback is, or that Lupin has got 
> AIDS or a RL disability. What I am saying is that JKR crafted a   
> parallel in my eyes between Slughorn and RL pedophiles, and that I 
> think she did that to make us be very wary of Slughorn.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
In her livejournal, Threeoranges connected Slughorn with a possible 
real life person who "collected" talented young men at Oxford:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/threeoranges/142574.html

Personally, I think Fenrir is the obvious pedophile parallel.  
Slughorn is something a bit different.  He's certainly a seducer 
(HBP is *full* of them, but I think that apt for the "Slytherin 
book") and I can certainly see a case to be made that he has a 
weakness for handsome and gifted young men. But he doesn't strike me 
as an attacker on the level of a pedophile.  For one, all of his 
former club members seem quite fond of him (even Snape in his own 
way).  For another, I think Hermione actually *did* enjoy the 
parties.  I think her reluctance to say so was more for Ron's 
feelings than any lying on her part.  I'm sure her head was turned 
by both the attention and the interesting people she got to meet, 
but I didn't get the sense that any sort of "bad things" occured.

> >>Del:
> Some of my questions are:
> * Why exactly is Slughorn running away from LV and his DEs? Is he 
> even really running away from them?

Betsy Hp:
I think he is really on the run.  And I think he's on the run 
because he knows too much.  Specifically about Tom and his 
horcruxes.  I'm sure Slughorn went into hiding as soon as Dumbledore 
announced Voldemort's return (about a year before Dumbledore hunts 
him down, I think). 

> >>Del:
> * Is it a coincidence that he so conveniently left his job at     
> Hogwarts just in time for Snape to replace him? Did he do it for  
> himself as he pretends, or for DD, or for LV, or because he was   
> threatened or blackmailed, or for yet another reason?

Betsy Hp:
I'm leery of coincidences, especially in mystery books (one of JKR's 
many genres).  So I think Slughorn stepped aside specifically to 
give Snape a place at the school and at Dumbledore's urging.  
Slughorn seems fond of Snape and I think he'd be just as eager for 
young!Snape to slip from Voldemort's grasp as Dumbledore was.  I 
don't think Voldemort had anything to do with it because I think 
Voldemort wanted Snape to take the DADA position. (I also seriously 
doubt Slughorn is at all sympathetic to Voldemort's cause.)

> >>Del:
> * Is it a coincidence that DD found him to offer him the job? Or  
> did Slughorn let DD find him?

Betsy Hp:
No coincidence.  Dumbledore needed Slughorn, so Dumbledore found 
him.  While Slughorn *was* in hiding, I doubt many folks could hide 
from Dumbledore for very long if he really wanted to find them.  (He 
knew where vapor!Mort was for all those years, didn't he?)

> >>Del:
> * Why does he keep bringing Lily up in front of Harry, while      
> *never* mentioning that she happened to be in the same class as   
> Snape? 

Betsy Hp:
Slughorn isn't an idiot.  He's trying to get on Harry's good side so 
he constantly talks about how much he liked Harry's beloved mother. 
(I'm quite sure Slughorn *did* like her quite a bit.)  Snape isn't a 
good way in with Harry, and while I'm not sure that Slughorn knew 
the level of animosity between the two, why bring up Snape when 
there was Lily to praise?  (Especially if praise of Snape might 
infringe upon praise of Lily.)

> >>Del:
> And why were James and Sirius apparently *not* among his          
> favourites? They were both very smart and well-related...

Betsy Hp:
I'm betting Sirius was courted and refused to go (Slytherin equals 
his horrible family after all).  And I'm betting James wasn't 
invited.  He wasn't *that* well related.  (Has anyone talked about 
the amazing Potter line?)  And I'm not sure he shined *that* well 
academically (not Hermione's level).  Probably too busy pranking and 
such.  Not in Slughorn's taste, I think.

> >>Del:
> * And what about the HBP book...?

Betsy Hp:
This I do put down to coincidence.  I don't think Slughorn knew a 
thing about it.  He honestly seemed to think Harry had a genuine 
talent inherited from his mother.  (The irony might be that Lily was 
helped out by Snape during potions and so, in a sense, Harry *did* 
have some of her skill.  But that's just a guess.)

> >>Del: 
> There's also the matter of the highly dangerous potions that he
> presented to his students at the beginning of the year.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Ahh, but these are NEWT students.  I'm sure by seventh year they'd 
have all been expected to *make* some of those potions.  At this 
level they should be expected to work with dangerous stuff.  And 
IIRC, Slughorn speaks of the dangers inherit in the various 
potions.  I didn't see anything wrong or unethical in his 
presentation here.

> >>Del: 
> And of course there's the matter of the "dirty little secret" that
> Slughorn so vehemently denied. How come he even *knew* about
> horcruxes? Why did he accept to discuss them with a student?

Betsy Hp:
Slughorn is a talented and well-learned professor.  I'm not 
surprised at all that he knew what a horcrux was.  (Dumbledore does, 
after all.)  In this particular memory I think Tom seduced Slughorn. 
(Not literally, of course.)   I think Tom had been playing people 
from the moment he came to Hogwarts.  Dumbledore even spoke about 
how the entire staff was charmed by him.  The orphanage was weary of 
him because he'd grown up with them and so they'd seen him exposed, 
as it were.  But Tom came to Hogwarts with a mask in place and I 
think he used Slughorn's weaknesses against him to get the 
information he desired.

> >>Del:
> Why did he keep that discussion a secret for so long?

Betsy Hp:
Because he was ashamed.  Slughorn got played and in doing so he 
inadvertantly gave Tom the information he needed to become Lord 
Voldemort.  I'm sure that realization has haunted him and that's why 
he's been so reluctant to share that information with anybody.  What 
I wonder is how Dumbledore knew Slughorn was hiding something.  Did 
Slughorn exhibit a strange amount of guilt whenever Voldemort was 
spoken of?  Something *must* have slipped for Dumbledore to think of 
looking to Slughorn for the information, and I wonder what that slip 
was.

> >>Del:
> <snip>
> And if he couldn't confess that particular mistake to DD, how can 
> we be sure that he's not hiding some other dirty little secrets?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Honestly, I don't think Slughorn's all that great of a secret 
keeper.  It's not that Dumbledore didn't know Slughorn had the 
information he needed, it's that Slughorn refused to give Dumbledore 
the details.

That's another reason I think the pedophile charge doesn't suit 
Slughorn.  He didn't keep his interest in Harry at all a secret 
(something I'd imagine a pedophile would really need to do).  He was 
very obvious about who he liked, he was very obvious about when his 
parties would occur, and I'm sure if Dumbledore had wanted to attend 
he'd have been gladly welcomed (more prestige for the party).

Slughorn *is* an elitist and certainly a hedonist, but I don't think 
he's a pedophile.

Betsy Hp